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Post by imperfectgolfer on Aug 2, 2013 15:26:19 GMT -5
See this 3jack forum thread - richie3jack.proboards.com/thread/4330/phil-release-ironsThe discussion started with a discussion re: PM's roller release action and then it evolved into a discussion of the differences between a roller release action and a DH-release action. Unfortunately, there is no no forum member in that forum who is knowledgeable enough to counteract the misinformation supplied by Jeffy. Jeffy always literally quotes his latest swing guru - KM - without providing any explanations. He specifically refers to this KM-provided table. NO forum member questioned the validity of KM's assertions. In particular, KM claims wrongly that a DHer uses an early supination action while a roller uses a late supination action. It is easy to prove KM wrong! Here is a classic DHer hand release action through impact - David Toms. Note how DT maintains a FLW and bent right wrist to well beyond impact in a classic DHer manner. However, DT doesn't use an early supination action in his late downswing and he uses the typical late supination action that represents the typical/standard release of PA#3. Image 1 shows DT at P6 and note that his FLW is parallel to the inclined plane (and roughly parallel to the ball-target line). Note that the toe of his club points upwards (which means that the clubface is very open to the clubhead arc). Image 2 shows DT at P6.5. Note that the back of his FLW is still parallel to the inclined plane, and that his left forearm is still pronated. There is zero evidence of early supination. If DT supinated his left forearm between P6 and P6.5 (while the club is still angled back 45-60 degrees relative to the left arm), it would throw the clubshaft over the plane. The only way a golfer can use early supination between P6 and P6.5 and still keep the clubshaft on-plane is if he simultaneously palmar flexes (arches/bows) the left wrist (like Hogan did in that swing sequence Jeffy always posts). DT is not arching/bowing his left wrist between P6 and P6.5 and he has a GFLW. Image 3 shows DT at P6.8. Note that the back of his FLW is now facing more targetwards due to the start of the release of PA#3, which involves a small amount amount of external rotation of the left humerus and a significant amount of left forearm supination. Image 4 shows DT at P7 - note that the back of his FLW faces more targetwards due to the continued release of PA#3. One can clearly see that the radial border of his radial bone is now much more rotated than his left antecubital fossa, and that is primarily due to a late supinatory action. Image 5 is at P7.1. Note that there is minimal rotation of his FLW through the immeditate impact zone (between P6.9-P7.1) because he is not continuing to supinate his lead forearm - like a roller (eg. Phil Mickelson). The difference in a roller hand release action is that left forearm supination continues post-impact - see this next animated gif of PM. Note how PM continues to supinate his lead forearm in his roller hand release action and that doesn't happen in DT's DH-hand release action. KM also wrongly claims that the right (rear) forearm will supinate in a DHer while it will pronate in a roller. He is only partly correct - it will pronate in a roller, but it will remain neutral in a DHer. It will only supinate in a DHer if the golfer uses a reverse roll (vertical hinging action) in his followthrough - as can be seen in this next PM image. PM is executing a flop shot using a DH-release action. Note that he has supinated his rear forearm to maintain an open clubface, and this represents the reverse roll of a vertical hinging action. There was also a debate as to whether one should measure the degree of roll action of the left forearm (as seen in a roller) by measuring the rotation of the clubface in degrees-of-rotation or per linear inch. Neither is accurately reflective of the degree of rotation of the left forearm because of two confounding variables - i) variations in the degree of flipping through impact and ii) variations in the accumulator #3 angle at impact. Any flipping of the clubhead through impact will close the clubface more than is primarily due to a left forearm supinatory action. Secondly, the degree of ROC of the clubface will be much greater per linear inch if the accumulator #3 angle is less. PM comes down the TSP through impact and his clubshaft and lead arm are nearly in a straight line relationship - so he will have much more clubface rotation per linear inch for every degree of rotation of the lead forearm than a golfer (like Sergio Garcia or Hunter Mahan) who has a much larger accumulator #3 angle at impact. Here is a diagram showing two different accumulator #3 angles (red curved arrow angle) at impact. Image 1 represents Sergio Garcia and image 2 represents Phil Mickelson. Jeff.
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Post by imperfectgolfer on Aug 2, 2013 20:51:00 GMT -5
I think that if you really understand this ROC issue, then you should know the correct answers to the following test questions. 1) If a DHer uses a late left forearm supinatory action (which is primarily responsible for the PA#3 release action - and this PA#3 release phenomenon is what BM groupies call "applying gamma torque") to square the clubface to the clubhead arc in the late downswing, does he use the same amount as a roller? 2) Do all DHers use the same amount of left forearm supinatory action pre-impact in order to square the clubface by impact? 3) When measuring the ROC due to a left forearm supinatory action (PA#3 release action) should the measurement be relative to the ground (eg. ball-target line) or the clubhead arc path? If you don't know the correct answers to those questions, then you don't really understand this ROC issue. cwdlaw223 obviously doesn't understand this ROC issue. See this BM-forum thread - www.brianmanzella.com/golfing-discussions/18274-chris-como-golf-com-golf-magazine-twist-throw.htmlBM posted this ridiculous Chris Como video on what BM calls a "twist and throw". www.brianmanzella.com/golfing-discussions/18274-chris-como-golf-com-golf-magazine-twist-throw.htmlChris Como's stupid idea that the logo of the left hand glove should face the golfer soon after impact is due to left wrist bending post-impact, so I am not surprised that it appeals to BM and BM groupies, who don't believe in maintaining a FLW/intact LAFW between P7 and P7.3. cwdlaw223 stated that he thinks that it is good video and he asks this stupid question-: " When in the downswing would this gamma torque move likely occur? I suspect a lot of people learned to gamma torque near the bottom of their swing by crossing their forearms over each other instead of having the lead wrist flex like done by Chris in the video". His question shows that he doesn't understand the "real life" biomechanics of a PA#3 release action (which is what BM groupies call "applying gamma torque" - because it causes the clubshaft to rotate about its longitudinal axis). If the clubshaft rotates about its longitudinal axis, then the clubface is closing relative to the clubhead arc. However, any roll of the clubshaft about its longitudinal axis should never involve left wrist bending or a forearm crossover action (ala AJ Bonar). It should occur secondarily to a left forearm supinatory action, which primarily happens between P6.5 and P7 - whether the golfer uses a DH-hand release action or a roller hand release action. Left forearm supination should not continue post-impact (between P7 and P7.3) in a DHer. So would a roller use the same amount of pre-impact PA#3 roll action (due to a left forearm supinatory action) in order to square the clubface as a DHer - if their left hand grip strength is the same? The answer is yes. Do all DHers use the same amount of pre-impact roll action between P6.5 and P7? The answer is no - because it depends on a major factor (left hand grip strength) and a minor factor (shoulder alignment at impact). Starting with the i) left hand grip strength issue. Image 1 shows a weak left hand grip, image 2 shows a slightly strong 2-3 knuckle grip, and image 3 shows a very strong 4+ knuckle grip. At impact (which is at low point in those images) - all golfers should have a square clubface, and the amount of PA#3 roll action required to square the clubface pre-impact primarily depends on left hand grip strength. A golfer who uses a weak (1-knuckle) left hand grip needs to use the maximum amount of left forearm supinatory action (PA#3 release action) in the late downswing to square the clubface by impact. A golfer who uses a 2-3 knuckle grip needs to use less left forearm supinatory action, and a golfer who uses a very strong left hand grip doesn't have to use any left forearm supinatory action (PA#3 release action) because he keeps the clubface square to the clubhead arc between P6 and P7.3 and there is no roll of the clubface relative to the clubhead arc. Here is what will happen in a golfer who doesn't have to use any left forearm supinatory action pre-impact - because he uses a strong left hand grip. Note that the clubface (in black) is square to the clubhead arc (in red) and there is no roll action through impact. Jamie Sadlowski is a perfect example of a golfer who doesn't have to use any left supinatory action in his late downswing to square the clubface by impact. Note that the back of his FLW is parallel to the inclined plane between P6 and P7 and there is no left forearm supinatory motion (as occurs in David Toms late downswing). In other words, the clubface doesn't rotate relative to the clubhead arc and there is no gamma torque being applied in his downswing action. Consider the second factor that affects the amount of left forearm supinatory action needed to square the clubface by impact - ii) shoulder alignment at impact. Note that my shoulders are square in these demo-images, and that the amount of left forearm supinatory action needed (amount of PA#3 release action needed) to square the clubface by impact is primarily affected by left hand grip strength (as previously discussed). However, the shoulder alignment at impact may not be square. If the shoulders are closed at impact, then one will need more left forearm supinatory action (PA#3 release action) to square the clubface by impact, and if the shoulders are open at impact then one will need less - for a given level of left hand grip strength. Now although Jamie Sadlowski doesn't use any PA#3 release action in his swing action and there is no roll of the clubface relative to the clubhead arc, he still has a certain level of ROC of the clubface relative to the ground (eg, using the ball-target line as the reference). The amount of ROC depends on a number of factors that affect the shape of the clubhead arc through the impact zone. The first factor is the radius of the clubhead arc - which depends on the combined length of the straight left arm's length and the clubshaft's length, and which is also slightly affected by the amount of accumulator #3 angle present at impact. The second major factor is the VSP of the clubshaft's travel through impact - and whether the clubshaft travels in a more horizontal (merry-go-round manner) or more vertical (ferris-wheel) manner through impact. However, it is important to understand that the issue of the ROC of the clubface relative to the ground due to these factors has nothing to do with the amount of left forearm supinatory action (PA#3 release action) required to roll the clubshaft about its longitudinal axis in the late downswing, and square the clubface by impact, in golfers who choose to use a weak/neutral/slightly strong left hand grip - irrespective of whether they use a roller hand release action or a DH-hand release action through impact. Jeff.
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Post by imperfectgolfer on Aug 3, 2013 10:20:38 GMT -5
Who does Jeffy always refer to when it comes to a classic DHer? The answer is Dustin Johnson. Well then, does DJ use an early or late left forearm supinatory action in his DH-release action? The answer is obvious if you actually examine his swing video. Here are capture images showing that he uses a DH-release action through impact. Now consider his swing action between P6 and P7 to determine whether he uses an early or late left forearm supinatory action. Image 1 is at P6 - note that his AFLW (slight bowed left wrist) is parallel to the inclined plane and his left forearm is still fully pronated. Image 2 is at P6.5 - note that the back of his AFLW is still parallel to the inclined plane and his left forearm is still pronated. There is no evidence of any early left forearm supinatory action. Image 3 is at P6.8 and one can see that the back of his AFLW is now starting to rotate counterclockwise. Image 4 is at P7 and the back of his AFLW is now facing the target. He is using a late left forearm supinatory action, which mainly occurs between P6.8 and P7. I don't know how KM/Jeffy can believe that DHers use an early left forearm supinatory action when the "evidence" is so clear and contrary to their beliefs. Jeff. p.s. Also note that DJ's right forearm is neutral and not supinated during his hand release action.
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Post by imperfectgolfer on Aug 4, 2013 23:03:26 GMT -5
Jeffy wrote the following in the 3jack forum thread-: " Sigh... Jeff Mann is utterly clueless. For some reason he thinks "early supination" takes place in the final phase of the downswing, as the the club releases into the ball, after P6. In fact, it takes place much earlier. In some cases, in transition, in others, between P5 and P6." He cannot understand my position - which is nothing new. I define early left forearm supination as happening before P6.5 and late supination as happening after P6.5. The release of PA#3 represents late left forearm supination and all DHers use a PA#3 release action if they have a weak/neutral or slightly strong left hand grip. I have not found a DHer who manifests early left forearm supination - other than the small amount required to shift from a shallower-to-a-steeper plane in the downswing (presuming that they change their clubshaft plane during their early-mid downswing). Jeffy posted this photo-: He seemingly claims that Bubba's clubface (red line) is more closed due to lead forearm supination happening before P6. That's obviously BS! Note that the clubface is closed relative to the back of his FLW/lower lead forearm, and that cannot be due to lead forearm rotation. That's probably a grip strength issue. If Bubba (or any pro golfer who has an intact LAFW) has their clubface parallel to the back of FLW/lower lead forearm at P5 (which would happen if one had a neutral lead wrist grip) and he then supinated his lead forearm slightly between P5 and P6 (which would steepen the clubshaft plane between P5 and P6), then the clubface would "appear" to be more closed (relative to the ground) but that phenomenon is solely due to steeping of the clubshaft. However, the clubface should still be parallel to the back of his FLW/lower lead forearm because left forearm supination rotates the entire clubshaft about the axis of the lead arm, and it should not alter the relationship of the clubface relative to the back of the lower lead forearm. If the clubface becomes more closed (relative to the lower lead forearm) during this clubshaft-steepening time period, then it means that another biomechanical factor is happening eg. bending the lead wrist or torquing the grip with left 3rd, 4th and 5th finger grip pressure. Jeff.
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Post by imperfectgolfer on Aug 4, 2013 23:22:29 GMT -5
My "guess" that Bubba Watson's clubface is closed (relative to the back of his FLW/lower lead forearm) due to a lead hand grip or lead wrist issue turned out to be correct. I found this Bubba Watson swing video. Here is a capture image of his near-end-backswing position. Note that the clubface is significantly closed relative to the back of his FLW/lower lead forearm. Jeff.
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Post by imperfectgolfer on Aug 5, 2013 0:02:59 GMT -5
I found a Bubba Watson face-on view video. Here are capture images. Image 1 shows that at his end-backswing position that his clubface is very closed relative to the back of his lower lead forearm (as demonstrated in the other capture image previously posted) and that is presumably due to the fact that his lead wrist is unusually arched. Image 2 shows him at P6.5. Note that his lead forearm is slightly pronated relative to his lead upper arm. Image 3 shows him at impact and a late lead forearm supinatory action (representing the release of PA#3) has happened between P6.5 and P7. However, there is less PA#3 release action needed because his clubface is already slightly closed relative to the back of his lead forearm in his earlier downswing. Jeff.
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Post by imperfectgolfer on Aug 5, 2013 8:28:07 GMT -5
Jeffy wrote-: " Yes, someone with a weaker grip like Phil, Gary Woodland or Hogan needs more supination than strong grippers like Bubba, DJ and Gainey to get the same amount of early closure. Completely obvious and totally lost on Jeff Mann" The problem with Jeffy's argument is that Bubba Watson doesn't have a strong lead wrist grip. Note that BW has a neutral grip at impact in image 3 and that it isn't stronger than PM's lead hand grip. When I wrote about left hand grip strength as a variable, I really mean whether the clubface is neutral or closed relative to the back of your FLW at address. BW may have his clubface slightly closed to the back of his FLW (which is neutral) at address, and he may also add another clubface closing element in his swing action when he arches/bows his lead wrist at the end-backswing. I plan to post a video on you-tube to explain the differences/effects of early versus late left forearm supination. I will post a link in this forum. Jeff.
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Post by imperfectgolfer on Aug 5, 2013 11:54:32 GMT -5
I have produced a 36 minute video that discusses in detail the differences/effects of early versus late left forearm supination, and I have downloaded it to my you-tube channel. If it is working properly, it should last 36 minutes and not prematurely stop before the end of the video. Feel free to ask questions or post your critiques/disagreements. Jeff.
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Post by imperfectgolfer on Aug 5, 2013 16:27:27 GMT -5
Jeffy wrote the following in a 3jack forum thread after viewing the first 20 minutes of my video-: "He's dead wrong that supination doesn't close the face and just as wrong when he claims PF closes the face, but, at this point, who cares what he says? And this "finger torquing" stuff is fantasy".
I will donate $1,000 to Jeffy's golf forum if he can demonstrate how early "pure" left forearm supination can close the clubface to the clubhead arc - in the absence of an additional clubface-closing biomechanical action.
I never stated that PF closes the clubface relative to the clubhead arc - and I specifically stated that it moves the clubshaft more underplane. If a golfer simultaneously applies a compensatory left forearm supinatory maneuver to keep the clubshaft on-plane, then the combined biomechanical action will cause the clubface to "appear" to be slightly closed.
He may believe that a finger torquing action, which often happens during an active palmar flexion maneuver, is pure fantasy, but I will be happy to donate $1,000 to his golf forum if he can demonstrate that he can close the clubface relative to the clubhead arc during a "pure" early left forearm supination without torquing the clubshaft about its longitudinal axis.
Jeff.
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Post by imperfectgolfer on Aug 5, 2013 19:16:28 GMT -5
Here is another artificially-biased Tapio video. Tapio is trying to prove that left wrist palmar flexion closes the clubface. However, he is only proving that you can torque the club with your fingers if you use a finger grip (like holding a hammer or vertical flagpole). Here are capture images from his video. Note that he "artificially" has the club oriented at right angles to the left forearm (which is horizontal to the ground) and the club is also vertically-oriented. He then grips the club with his fingers - like one would grip a vertical flagpole with one's fingers while holding the left forearm parallel to the ground. I have drawn a line down the middle phalanges of the 3rd, 4th and 5th fingers in image 1. Note that the blue line rotates when he performs his left wrist palmar flexion maneuver (image 2), and it is the rotation of his fingers that causes the vertically-oriented clubshaft to rotate about its longitudinal axis because the fingers are firmly applied to the grip and they are torquing the grip in a rotary manner. He thinks that the left wrist palmar flexion is a "pure" palmar flexion action, but it is a secondary phenomenon - as would occur if you gripped a vertical flagpole with your fingers and then tried to twist the flagpole around its longitudinal axis. One would not be able to rotate a "fixed" flagpole that is rigidly fixed in a vertical position, but while trying to actively rotate the flapgpole around its longitudinal axis, one would secondarily acquire palmar flexion. It's biomechanically near-impossible to apply a rotary torque with one's fingers if one doesn't simultaneously palmar flex the wrist. This video is totally artificial and unrelated to "real life" golf swing reality. In "real life" the club is held diagonally across the palm, and any left wrist palmar flexion maneuver would angle/displace the shaft. Tapio is preventing any clubshaft angulation from happening in his video. Also, if you perform a "pure" left wrist palmar flexion maneuver with the clubshaft angled diagonally across the palm and simultaneously kept both the PIP and DIP joints of the fingers in full extension so you couldn't grip-torque the club, then the club would angle away from the target and there would be no rotary motion of the club around its longitudinal axis, and therefore no clubface closing. Jeff.
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Post by imperfectgolfer on Aug 5, 2013 19:52:52 GMT -5
Jeffy posted this image in the 3jack forum. Note that Jeffy's clubface is parallel to the back of his lower left forearm and that he has a GFLW (slightly cupped left wrist). Note that Hogan's clubface is slightly closed because he is palmar flexing (arching/bowing) his left wrist. Note that his clubface is not parallel to his lower left forearm but it is parallel to the back of his left hand. The "rotated palm up" description in the text is not due to left forearm supination, but it is due to the fact that Hogan has a palmar flexed left wrist. Note that Hogan's left radial bone (at watchstrap level) is not more rotated counterclockwise than Jeffy's (relative to their respective antecubital fossa) and note that there is no visual evidence that Hogan has more left forearm supination than Jeffy. If you don't believe me, perform this simple experiment. Mimic Jeffy's P6 position using your personal golf club and make sure that i) you have a GFLW and ii) that the clubface is roughly parallel to the back of your GFLW and also your lower left forearm and also roughly vertical to the ground. Then, simply palmar flex your left wrist while avoiding any left forearm supinatory motion, but allow the clubshaft to angle back slightly secondary to the left wrist palmar flexion motion. You should note that the clubface becomes slightly more closed (like Hogan's clubface) during this simple experiment. You should also note that the clubface remains parallel to the back of your left hand at its end-angulation position (although it obviously will not remain parallel to your lower left forearm), and that your right palm should also have a "rotated-up" appearance. Finally, repeat the "left wrist palmar flexion" maneuver, but deliberately finger-torque the grip while you are palmar flexing the left wrist - you should note that the clubface closes even more. Jeff.
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Post by imperfectgolfer on Aug 5, 2013 21:39:36 GMT -5
Jeffy has stated that all DHers use early left forearm supination to close the clubface (relative to the clubhead arc), and he has also implied that it usually involves associated left wrist palmar flexion, and that it also likely occurs between P4 and P6.5. OK - Let's examine the "evidence". Consider Keegan Bradley's (one of Jeffy's favorite examples of a DHer) downswing action. Here are capture images from his swing video. The red line represents his mid-downswing clubshaft plane. Image 1 shows him at his end-backswing position. Note that his clubface is very slightly closed relative to the back of his GFLW (slightly cupped left wrist) and lower left forearm, and that is probably due to the fact that his clubface was slightly closed to the back of his lower left forearm/GFLW at address. That small degree of clubface closure can be deemed to be static and should not change during his downswing. The question then becomes - is there evidence that i) KB uses a left forearm supinatory maneuver in his early-mid downswing (between P4 and P6.5) and ii) that he uses associated left wrist palmar flexion and that the combination of i) and ii) causes the clubface to dynamically close (become more closed during his early-mid downswing action). Image 2 shows him just bypassing the P5 position. Note that his hands and clubshaft have dropped down to the red line and he is on-plane. Note that he still has a GFLW and that his clubface is still very slightly closed relative to the back of his GFLW/lower left forearm. His clubface has not become more closed in his transition and early downswing action. Image 3 shows him at the P5.5 position. Note that his hands and clubshaft are descending down the mid-downswing plane. Note that he still has a GFLW and that the clubface is still very slightly closed relative to the back of his GFLW/lower left forearm. Note that there is no evidence of left forearm supination or left wrist palmar flexion, or evidence of the clubface becoming more dynamically closed. Image 4 is at the P6 position. Note that the clubface is vertical to the ground and the toe is pointing upwards. Note that there is no evidence of left forearm supination or left wrist palmar flexion, or evidence of the clubface becoming more dynamically closed. His clubface looks like Jeffy's clubface - see image in my previous post. Image 5 is at the P6.5 position. Note that there is still no evidence of left forearm supination or evidence of left wrist palmar flexion or any evidence of clubface closing. Note that his clubface is still significantly open (relative to the clubhead arc) at this P6.5 position. In other words, there is no evidence that KB is using an i) early left forearm supinatory maneuver or ii) any left wrist palmar flexion or iii) that his clubface is dynamically closing (relative to his clubhead arc) between P4 and P6.5. Jeff.
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Post by imperfectgolfer on Aug 6, 2013 7:05:56 GMT -5
Tapio wrote the following in the 3jack forum thread-: " And here is the point where Jeff Mann is totally lost. There is lot of players with perpendicular grip (long thumb) hitting great shots, there is lot of player with more diagonal grip(short thumb) , but no players who keep it in palm and shaft running parallel to the forearm." I never stated that the clubshaft should be held with the shaft running up the forearm because that's a high palmar grip. I used the term "diagonal" and that represents a low palmar grip. Here is Hogan showing his low palmar grip. Tapio should hold a club like Hogan, and then palmar flex his left wrist. He will then discover the "true effect" of palmar flexion on the club => the club will angulate with no closing of the clubface because of the lack of "fingers clasped around the grip". Secondly, watch a golfer (who uses a finger grip) perform a takeaway maneuver from the address position. At address, the left wrist is usually slightly dorsiflexed, and it becomes straightened during the takeaway (between P1 and P2) and yet there is no clubface closure during a takeaway maneuver if a golfer avoids performing a twistaway action during the takeaway. Jeff.
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Post by imperfectgolfer on Aug 8, 2013 12:52:30 GMT -5
I think that I have finally come to understand the biomechanics of why Hogan's clubface closed between P5.5 and P6.5 in that animated gif image frequently posted by Jeffy. Note that Hogan's clubface is slightly closed in image 2, and KM/Jeffy have claimed that it due to early left forearm supination, which was a feature of his mid-later career (note that his left forearm is more supinated in image 2 compared to image 1). However, I now believe that it is causally due to left wrist palmar flexion, which will close the clubface if the clubshft is kep stationary and if it doesn't angulate , and angulation in the P5.5-P6 zone is normally prevented by the RFFW which helps keep the clubshaft on-plane and resists any motion of the clubshaft in an underplane direction. In my previous post, I showed that Keegan Bradley (a DHer) doesn't palmar flex his left wrist between P4 and P6.5, and that he maintains an intact LAFW. Therefore, his clubface doesn't close - either relative to the back of his lower left forearm or relative to the clubhead arc. However, consider another DHer - David Toms. Image 1 shows that he has a GFLW at P5 and his clubface is parallel to the back of his lower left forearm, and open to the clubhead arc. Image 2 is at P5.5. Note that his clubface has dynamically closed between P5 and P5.5. Why? I believe that it is because he palmar flexes his left wrist, and if i) the left wrist is radially deviated with a ~90 degree angle between the clubshaft and the left arm + ii) the clubshaft is prevented from angulating, then the clubface will close (as Tapio routinely shows in his PF videos). See my latest you-tube video where I show that the clubface markedly closes during a left wrist palmar flexion maneuver if you i) have a radially deviated left wrist with the clubshaft at a ~90 degree angle to the left forearm and ii) if you keep the clubshaft stationary and prevent it angulating. That is what is happening between P5 and P5.5 in DT's swing action. Note that I have drawn a red line along the radial border of DT's lower left forearm in image 2 and 3, and although it is still pronated relative to his left-antecubital fossa in images 2 and 3. I strongly suspect that it is more pronated in image 1 and that means that there has been a small degree of left forearm supination between P5 and P5.5. Now think about the situation more carefully. In my you-tube video on early versus late left forearm supination, I demonstrated that left forearm supination throws the clubshaft over-the-plane in a "tumbling manner". However, what will happen if the right arm/RFFW prevents you from tumbling the clubsaft to a steeper plane while you are actively trying to perform an early supination action? The result will be left wrist palmar flexion (+/- increased left finger finger torquing action) and that will close the clubface - if i) the club is stationary and not allowed to move underplane and ii) if the left wrist is markedly radially deviated and the left arm-clubshaft angle is at ~90 degrees. Now, what is a very interesting phenomenon, and it represents a "new insight" for me, is that this "closed clubface phenomenon" must dissipate as the downswing evolves between P5.5 and P7 and the club progressively releases. As the club releases, and the left wrist becomes less radially deviated and more neutral, then the "clubface-closing phenomenon" (secondary to left wrist palmar flexion when the left wrist is maximally radially deviated ) must also dissipate. This phenomenon is clearly seen in DT's late downswing - between P6 and P7. Note that the clubface is far less closed relative to the back of DT's FLW/lower left forearm in image 2 and 3 - relative to image 1 (and relative to image 2 in the DTL sequence when DT was at P5.5). Note that the clubface is still slightly open to the clubhead arc at P6.8 (image 3) which explains why DT still has to use a PA#3 release action (like all DHers who do not use a very strong left hand grip). One can clearly see that DT is using a late left forearm supinatory action between image 3 and image 5 (between P6.8 and P7.1) - even though Jeffy believes that the phenomenon of late left forearm supination in a DHer ia a fantasy idea. Jeff.
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Post by virtuoso on Aug 8, 2013 13:56:59 GMT -5
I think those are important points Jeff. I was always torn about the issue of PF closing the face. It was always stated that PF at the top of the backswing was closed because the wrist was fully cocked, but pure PF near impact independent of forearm rotation after the the club had begun to unhinge, didn't necesarily close the face.
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