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Post by imperfectgolfer on Apr 12, 2011 22:37:30 GMT -5
I noted this BM-post in his golf forum. "It is just plain ole NOT THAT EASY! You have to wind up, and un wind, and help your arms and hands give the ball a good WHACK. It HAS TO BE DONE with a certain angle of attack, and a certain dynamic loft, and a certain path and face. TRUST ME, if you do all of the above, YOU WILL STONE COLD LOOK LIKE A DAMN TOUR PLAYER THROUGH THE BALL. This INCLUDES a center that moves a BUNCH. Why? ? Because there is no other way to do it. You HAVE TO MOVE SOME THINGS people like to call CENTERS to be able to do this (for example): 6 iron 19° dynamic loft 2° inside-out 1° open 3.9° angle of attack 61° vertical sweetspot path planeIf I were any good at geometry, I could draw it for all of you. The Blue stuff CAN NOT BE DONE WITHOUT MOVING THE CENTERS!!!!!!!!!!! Ball game. " Why does BM believe that you have to move the USC a bunch to achieve those numbers? I think that a golfer could keep the USC near-stationary and achieve those numbers. Jeff.
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Post by gmbtempe on Apr 13, 2011 0:06:42 GMT -5
On the face of it just sounds crazy.
How can he prove you can't get those numbers with any type of swing?
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Post by natep on Apr 13, 2011 0:15:12 GMT -5
My guess is that you'd be too steep if the "centers" were too stationary.
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Post by gmbtempe on Apr 13, 2011 0:37:11 GMT -5
My guess is that you'd be too steep if the "centers" were too stationary. Yea, would love to hear it... I am just real confused on what he is talking about, I looked at Adam Scott's and Louis Oosthuizen's swing and he just is hardly moving off it, yet its two of the swings BM was hailing as the "new" tour model swing. I mean both centers, with a drive even, barely move. What am I missing here? Cant seem to upload so here is a link, red line was the centers at the start, basically a line through the head and down between the legs. I understand the camera's are not perfect but these just aint moving much from setup. www.flickr.com/photos/25439725@N02/5615612934/
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Post by natep on Apr 13, 2011 1:20:33 GMT -5
By "centers" he could mean the 3d center, so even if it doesnt appear to move from a face on view, it may move backwards some. I dont know.
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Post by richie3jack on Apr 13, 2011 8:46:18 GMT -5
MORAD is about a centered pivot in the backswing. It's not about a slightly right of center pivot or a left of center pivot. I've talked about this with my instructor who has probably spent more time with Mac than anybody currently still friends with Mac.
In fact, a couple of lessons ago we worked on my backswing pivot because it was moving a bit too far to the left. It's not an attempt at bashing anybody, but we agree it was 'too S&T.'
S&T appears to be mostly fine with a slightly left of centered pivot, although from talking to different instructors they would prefer to see a centered pivot, but they'll take a left of center if it happens. Plus, a lot of golfers are moving so far off the ball with their swing that they don't mind if they are left of center when working with them because it more or less beats the alternative.
Now, I'm not saying that's what I prescribe, but that's what I gather from the S&T guys. However, MORAD is about centered in the backswing.
The 'non-moving center' I am not sure if I'm interpreting Brian correctly. I will say that in MORAD the centers absolutely move, particularly in the downswing. Plus, I don't think saying you want the pivot centered doesn't mean the centers don't move at all.
From my experience with MORAD, we've never discussed a non-moving center or in my mind anything with relation to a non-moving swing center, period.
3JACK
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Post by gmbtempe on Apr 13, 2011 11:22:23 GMT -5
Yes, centers move left in MORAD, but thats why the SnT pivot is not MORAD. Mac moves off the ball every so slightly and then moves forward at the top and into impact, a good 3 inches.
So maybe Brian is saying the upper center does not move back per say, its set back behind the ball, but hardly moves forward?
This is why those cryptic posts suck.
I know one thing, my MORAD instructor keeps telling me on my pivot "to Stack and Tilt".
I have draw a lot of lines on Mac, his spine is definitely a lot closer to Jeff's ideal than A+B.
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Post by candygram on Apr 13, 2011 11:46:33 GMT -5
How far is he hitting what? 9 iron, between 150-160. He hits it a very long way, 5 irons well over 200 yards. Here is a longer club, like a 6 iron. Wow!!! Who is your friend's teacher? What an impact position: He's doing what I want to do. His hands are so far in front he clearly is getting an extra club or too simply from delofting the club. Also looks strong as an ox.
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Post by gmbtempe on Apr 13, 2011 11:55:30 GMT -5
Yes, he compresses it like no one I have been around.
His name is David McDanial and he lost to Lion Kim in finals the Pub Links or he would have been at Augusta last week.
He works with Mac O Grady and also with Denny Alberts in Tucson, who is also my instructor.
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Post by richie3jack on Apr 13, 2011 12:18:02 GMT -5
Yes, centers move left in MORAD, but thats why the SnT pivot is not MORAD. Mac moves off the ball every so slightly and then moves forward at the top and into impact, a good 3 inches. Yes, the head moves in MORAD in the backswing. Very slightly, but noticeably. Nobody has claimed different with me From looking at the swings he prefers, it looks like he wants a big movement of the swing centers back and thru. Bubba Watson moves off it a ton. I understand the 'optimization' argument. I think there's an advantage to hitting it long and the stats back it up. I think in general, long hitters do well from the Danger Zone, and the stats back that up as well. But, it becomes a question of whether or not the golfer can do it or do with enough precision to be effective. I can hit the ball 330 yards off the tee now. But if I tried that every time, I'd probably do it about 20-30% of the time and there's no guarantee those shots would not find trouble. And then the other shots would very likely find trouble. I'd rather continue to swing like I'm doing, have maybe a 5% chance of hitting that 330 yard driver, but hitting a lot of 280-300 yard drives and being far more precise in the process. There's a golf pro at Eastwood who knows I'm getting lessons with George and knows that it's MORAD. He doesn't know a thing about MORAD (he teaches Mike Austin stuff), but he was telling me how he caddied for a friend paired up with Mac in a tournament not too long ago and was amazed how far he hit the ball, blasting it routinely 325+ that day. Don't get me wrong, I'd love to bomb it and hit it like Bubba Watson, but I just don't see it happening. So as you hit it shorter, the more accurate and precise you need to be. I think that's fairly obvious and that's why I don't get the infatuation with somebody like Bubba Watson's swing. I concur, 100% Well, feel isn't real for and two different people will likely have two different feels. But MORAD is not into the left lean pivot on the backswing. I don't think S&T is either if they had their way. As you know, MORAD is very specific with things like this. 3JACK
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