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Post by imperfectgolfer on Dec 6, 2010 12:01:43 GMT -5
I would imagine that very forum member has their personal idea of which golfer has the greatest golf swing. My personal choice would be Annika Sorenstam. From my personal perspective, this short swing video demonstrates all the attributes of a perfect golf swing. Features that I love about AS's swing. 1) She uses a natural rightwards-centralised pivot action where she doesn't sway to-and-fro, or bob up-and-down. She also doesn't try to keep her USC stationary throughout the backswing, and therefore she doesn't need to use an assertive "butt tuck-under-the-spine" pelvic thrust motion in the downswing. 2) Her downswing/followthrough pelvic motion is rotary, and it is perfectly time-coordinated with her upper torso rotation. 3) She immediately comes-up post-impact and there is no reverse C posturing in her followthrough/finish. 4) Her knee action is very limited - her knees only move in order to allow the pelvis to rotate. There is no knee over-flexing in the early downswing or knee over-bending into impact. 5) She has a compact backswing and never over-swings. 6) Her LAFW is intact throughout her backswing, downswing and followthrough. 7) Her RFFM has a perfect relationship to her LAFW throughout the backswing/downswing. 8) There is no hand crossover release action in her swing. 9) Her rhythm is impeccable. Her arms rotate at the same rpm as her body. She looks like a human pendulum that has no extraneous moving parts. Therefore, she has a consistent clubhead arc and consistent low point location. Jeff.
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Post by youngsiwalker on Dec 6, 2010 15:26:40 GMT -5
It does look phenomenal, rythym is unbelievable. Do you think there are any disadvantages to her swing ? Power limitations or difficulty with shot shaping ect ? Im not saying there are just wonder if there any bad points in your opinion. not sure what my favourite is but i love the swing in the video below, the one you use on your website of tiger. It doesnt have the same visual as your video jeff but i love the way he looks like he could pull a tree out of the ground with the power in his core rotation. www.youtube.com/watch?v=nESDTgMck0U
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Post by imperfectgolfer on Dec 6, 2010 16:13:02 GMT -5
Simon,
I don't see any weaknesses in her swing. She can apparently drive the ball 250-270 yards, which is impressive for a female.
I think that Tiger has too many swing flaws. I don't care for his knee over-flexing, and hip bending, in the early downswing that makes him bob up-and-down. I don't care for his over-assertive pelvic rotation that causes his lower body to often outrace his upper body/arms. I also don't like the over-assertive thrust motion of his pelvis, that has become more prominent now that he is being coached by Foley. He is thrusting his pelvis against the resistance of a straight left leg at impact, which over-stresses the left knee. I don't like his reverse C finish which indicates that he may be over-stressing his lumbar spine.
Jeff.
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Post by richie3jack on Dec 6, 2010 16:13:15 GMT -5
When I think about great golf swings I usually break it down into 2 categories.
1. Great ballstrikers, regardless of technique.
2. Great ballstrikers with great technique.
In essence, I feel Jim Furyk has a great golf swing because his results are superb. I think the same way for Fred Couples. But I think only a very small minority of people could ever swing anything remotely like they do and hit the ball consistently well. I think most would try their backswing and have huge issues every getting their downswing remotely on plane.
But the results dictate to me a great swing.
However, when I focus on great golf swings for my own analysis, I look more at the results and the compensations being made. How large those compensations are and how many compensations are being made.
Typically the 'greatest swing of all time' is Ben Hogan according to golfer's. I think Hogan had some noticeable compensations and things that don't work for the typical golfer. In fact, I think much of what he teaches about the grip in '5 Lessons' is disadvantageous for most golfers because it's difficult for most to keep the shaft in line with the left arm post impact with a weak grip. Myself, I have large hands and I'm much bigger overall than Hogan was and don't have the hand or wrist power to use a weak grip and keep those alignments in tact.
But it's obvious to see the many great things that Hogan did in the swing and with a motion and pivot that was just spectacular.
Snead had a great swing as well and IMO, probably more suitable for the average golfer to follow because the grip was much stronger. What's interesting with Snead is I've seen numerous pictures with him where his swing has some noticeable changes to it. Since Snead didn't get lessons (to my knowledge) I think the way he swung the club was just how he woke up that morning. Some pics I've seen him get a bit flat to quite a bit upright to just perfect. But he also had some many great alignments and such a great motion/pivot, that it's undeniably a great swing. Plus, the older golfers said that Hogan was great and remarkably accurate and consistent, but Snead had 'all of the shots' and did things that golfers didn't think was possible.
When I think of greatest golf swing, I probably think of Mac O'Grady for now.
He can certainly produce the results, he has great alignments, limits his compensations and has a great motion/pivot. He can also use a CP or CF release on command and work it with ease both ways.
3JACK
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Post by youngsiwalker on Dec 6, 2010 17:17:27 GMT -5
Jeff, what is a rightward centralised pivot action ? Is that rightwards spinal tilt related ?
I see alot more of these type of swings like anikas and CQ but they seem to have very quiet hips and not very aggressive pivots, your one armed golfer example on youtube has the type of pivot im trying to visualise and execute. Do you see a great deal of difference in the pivot between these three examples ?
I thought i had was that shorter backswings used more frequently these days would involve less rotation therefore less pivot movement ?
richie, i have never seen mac ogrady before........... love it though looks so right. Totall agree with every word you said too.
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Post by wedgey on Dec 6, 2010 18:15:37 GMT -5
Mickey Wright. Even Hogan said she had the best swing he ever saw although that was a while ago. I think her swing is just about as good as it gets.
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jeffy
Full Member
Posts: 129
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Post by jeffy on Mar 27, 2011 19:27:49 GMT -5
Simon, I don't see any weaknesses in her swing. She can apparently drive the ball 250-270 yards, which is impressive for a female. I'd check her distance now. Rumor was she was using steroids during her playing days, just look at how she bulked up (and disagreement over using the juice supposedly led to her divorce). Also, she quit the tour after it was announced that drug testing would be instituted. See Mickey Wright for a really good golf swing, with power, or young Vicky Hurst, though I don't like her recent changes.
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Post by richie3jack on Apr 8, 2011 12:19:54 GMT -5
I like Annika's downswing a lot. I'm not a fan enough of her backswing for me to consider it 'perfect.'
The steroid thing doesn't sway my opinion of her swing that much. She's still a small woman even if she allegedly was using roids or HGH (if she was using, it was probably the latter because she could afford it and it's far more effective with lesser side effects than roids). It would still be very impressive to hit it about 250-275. Doesn't make it right IMO. And with HGH, the scientist who created and designed the BALCO drugs (can't remember his name), did say point blank....he has studies that show that HGH will not only improve strength, but actually improve timing and hand-eye coordination.
Still though, I like Annika's downswing and I think she'd hit it quite well if she was on steroids or HGH or if on nothing. And it's difficult for me to accuse people of steroid use unless it's very obvious.
As far as the ladies go, I prefer Angela Park's swing.
3JACK
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Post by imperfectgolfer on Apr 8, 2011 13:31:55 GMT -5
What do you like about Angela Park's swing - that AS doesn't have in her swing?
Jeff.
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Post by richie3jack on Apr 8, 2011 17:15:39 GMT -5
hand path more inside than Annika's and she doesn't get laid off because of that, so she doesn't need to re-route herself back on plane in the downswing. Handle is lower at impact, so the rate of closure is slower. I also like Park's footwork better.
3JACK
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Post by imperfectgolfer on Apr 8, 2011 18:05:43 GMT -5
3jack,
You wrote-: "Handle is lower at impact, so the rate of closure is slower."
I don't understand why you believe that a lower handle at impact implies a slower rate of closure. Could you please explain that causal association?
In what sense is AP's footwork better?
Jeff.
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Post by richie3jack on Apr 8, 2011 23:28:30 GMT -5
Lower handle usually gets a slower rate of closure because of the weight of the club and the lie angle of the club and how we release the Power Accumulators, in this case, #2 and #3 PA. Park gets the right ankle to pronate. That avoids the weight getting up on toes. Annika has the weight up on her toes of her right foot, knee points out towards the ball. All of which effects the pivot of the pelvis.
I like Annika's downswing, but I think most golfers would struggle to get to that downswing with her backswing. It's like Furyk...hard to argue with actual ballstriking results, but I think there are things that would give most amateurs major problems because usually they struggle to get on plane if they are laid off.
3JACK
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Post by imperfectgolfer on Apr 9, 2011 0:06:42 GMT -5
3jack,
You wrote-: "Lower handle usually gets a slower rate of closure because of the weight of the club and the lie angle of the club and how we release the Power Accumulators, in this case, #2 and #3 PA."
That's an assertion and not an explanation.
I find your assertion to be without any logical merit because you have not provided an explanation as to how the weight and lie angle of the club can affect the rate of clubface closure. I also do not understand how a lower handle has anything to do with the mechanism of the release of PA#2 and PA#3.
You also rotate-: "Park gets the right ankle to pronate. That avoids the weight getting up on toes. Annika has the weight up on her toes of her right foot, knee points out towards the ball. All of which effects the pivot of the pelvis."
I disagree! That's an assertion and not an explanation. I believe that the movement of the right knee/foot in the late downswing is secondary to the pelvic motion, and it doesn't causally affect the pelvic motion.
You also wrote-: "I like Annika's downswing, but I think most golfers would struggle to get to that downswing with her backswing. It's like Furyk...hard to argue with actual ballstriking results, but I think there are things that would give most amateurs major problems because usually they struggle to get on plane if they are laid off."
I don't think that AS gets laid-off. I think that she is on-plane at her end-backswing position with her LAFW intact.
I think that you harbor many different "beliefs", but you virtually never provide causally-rational biomechanical/mechanical explanations, that can be critically analysed with respect to their rational legitimacy.
Jeff.
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