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Post by richie3jack on Dec 9, 2010 9:34:06 GMT -5
MORAD teaches a gradual thrusting/straightening of the right arm. I think 'gradual' is the key terminology in that if you were to view it on camera, for every frame the right arm will straighten out more to some degree.
I think for MORAD's philosophy, Gahm thrusts too much too early. The reason for the thrust is:
1. it keeps the club on plane while the golfer is able to rotate their torso to open on the downswing.
2. It moves the hands more targetward at p6, which creates a 'maximum trigger delay' look.
3. Those hands moving forward get the shoulders more open at p6. Move the hands further away from the target at p6 and the shoulders will get closed. So at impact the golfer can more easily have the shoulders open to the target. This also ties in with getting the shoulderst to turn 90* to the spine.
3JACK
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Post by imperfectgolfer on Dec 9, 2010 9:59:14 GMT -5
3jack,
What is a maximum trigger delay look?
Jeff.
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Post by gmbtempe on Dec 9, 2010 11:59:43 GMT -5
Another interesting point about LG's downswing. Note that she has squared her pelvis, but that doesn't pull her right elbow down to right hip level - as demonstrated by Ben Hogan in this posed photo. To mimic Hogan's position, one has to lower the right shoulder and actively adduct the right elbow - while the hips are squaring as result of the pelvis shift-rotation movement that starts the downswing action. LG is not performing those two actions. It doesn't happen automatically - as Hogan implied. Jeff. You show this posed picture all the time, yet Hogan himself does not do this at this position in a real swing. Look at his shoulders, the right is obscured but there is no way he has that much axis tilt at this point in his real swing, his shoulders are very much level at this point IMO. Maybe he was demonstrating hitting up on a driver?
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Post by gmbtempe on Dec 9, 2010 12:01:31 GMT -5
Natep, It may not be ~90 degrees, It may be 100 degrees. See the DTL view - at 0.21 minutes. All I know is that she is widening that left arm-clubshaft angle during her sweep release action, when that angle becomes ~130 degrees by the early phase of her mid-downswing. Addendum: I have demonstrated her release sequence using my swing analysis program. If you do not believe that is releasing the club in the early phase of the mid-downswing - based on these photos, then I cannot present better evidence. Jeff. I know she is a good sized gal that can hit it pretty good but you would never tell from those photo's, can you be more late at P6?
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Post by gmbtempe on Dec 9, 2010 12:02:51 GMT -5
3jack, What is a maximum trigger delay look? Jeff.
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Post by imperfectgolfer on Dec 9, 2010 12:12:37 GMT -5
Greg,
What doesn't Hogan do in his real swing?
If that photo shows a "maximum trigger delay look" then how can it be due to straightening the right elbow - note that the right elbow must still be bent to acquire that look?
According to Brian, LG is very talented and she can control her release pattern at will - from a sweep release to a random release to a late release pattern. She apparently hits the ball the furthest when using a sweep release pattern.
Jeff.
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Post by gmbtempe on Dec 9, 2010 12:19:17 GMT -5
See my edited post, he does not have that kind of axis tilt at this point in the swing, NOR anything resembling that right arm position.
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Post by gmbtempe on Dec 9, 2010 12:20:49 GMT -5
You asked for the "look" I gave you a picture. I can get that look with plenty of right arm bend, that look comes from shoulder and spine motion, IMO,
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Post by imperfectgolfer on Dec 9, 2010 12:50:17 GMT -5
Greg,
I don't question the "look". I question 3 jack's apparent assertion that the "look" could occur secondary to a right arm straightening action.
Jeff.
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Post by imperfectgolfer on Dec 9, 2010 13:11:24 GMT -5
Greg, You wrote-: "You show this posed picture all the time, yet Hogan himself does not do this at this position in a real swing. Look at his shoulders, the right is obscured but there is no way he has that much axis tilt at this point in his real swing, his shoulders are very much level at this point IMO." I agree that the posed photo shows an exaggerated right shoulder depression motion. However, not by much! Here is his swing. Here is his delivery position in his "real" swing when he is in a state of dynamic motion. Note that his right shoulder is lower and he has a lot of secondary axis tilt. Note that his right elbow is in front of his right hip area, and his right elbow is still very bent. Jeff.
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Post by richie3jack on Dec 9, 2010 13:36:56 GMT -5
Greg, What doesn't Hogan do in his real swing? If that photo shows a "maximum trigger delay look" then how can it be due to straightening the right elbow - note that the right elbow must still be bent to acquire that look? Jeff. You can straighten the right arm and still be bent. Much like you can straighten the right leg and still be bent. Straight en is different from straight. If McNary did not straighten the right arm, his hands at p6 would be further away from the target and very likely behind his right leg. 3JACK
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Post by gmbtempe on Dec 9, 2010 13:39:50 GMT -5
Like I said, Hogan does not come close to doing what he poses, here is his posed P6 position from that same video. Nice right arm bend huh? Your black and white still posed photo is like P5, yet you captured his axis tilt at P6? Why. Inst this a closer position, notice he has very little axis tilt compared to that Black and white photo, and his posed photo from the same video. His right elbow has lots of bend in the pose, he has disproportionate axis tilt. I would not copy his posed method at all if it were up to me. My point is Hogan explaining what he is doing is just about meaningless to me.
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Post by richie3jack on Dec 9, 2010 13:39:53 GMT -5
Greg, I don't question the "look". I question 3 jack's apparent assertion that the "look" could occur secondary to a right arm straightening action. Jeff. Go to the top of the swing with the right arm folded. Now try to go to p6 with the hands about in the middle of your stance. How do you do that? By straightening/thrusting the right arm. The more bent my right arm is, the further away from the target the hands will be at p6. 3JACK
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Post by imperfectgolfer on Dec 9, 2010 18:38:05 GMT -5
Greg,
I don't see much difference. In the posed photo he is standing more erect and in his "real" swing he is more bent-over.
Jeff.
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Post by imperfectgolfer on Dec 9, 2010 18:44:15 GMT -5
3jack, You wrote-: "Go to the top of the swing with the right arm folded. Now try to go to p6 with the hands about in the middle of your stance. How do you do that? By straightening/thrusting the right arm. The more bent my right arm is, the further away from the target the hands will be at p6." I respectfully disagree. I think that one can get one's hands to the middle of one's stance with a bent right elbow if one actively adducts the right upper arm so that the right elbow bypasses the right hip area and reaches a point in front of the right-central pelvis. See image 3 in the Ben Doyle sequence. Jeff.
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