|
Post by MKovner on Dec 21, 2011 13:39:56 GMT -5
A little background: I only started golfing in May '11. I took a few crappy lessons, read a couple crappy books and then found PerfectGolfSwingReview. After that I tried to build my swing based on the ideas found there, and based on some of the ideas found on clemshaw's videos. I didn't play a round for the first couple months of practicing, but after that first round, I stopped patiently building my swing and was more interested in playing rounds (All >100). So, now that the weather has cooled and the rain has started here in Seattle, I have decided to commit to patiently build my swing, one move at a time.
I plan on posting videos and thoughts to log my progress, and I welcome any comments (including 'this is stupid. get out of our forum'), but I'm certainly not posting here to beg for help. If nobody responds, I plan on continuing to keep this thread as a journal, because I think it would be an interesting log of progress.
Anyways, on to my swing: I know that there will be lots and lots of problems as I am just a beginner, but to start with I'd say that the biggest problem from before was that I started the downswing with my arms, leading to a cast and a dramatic flipping motion. In my goal to work on only one move at a time, I've spent the past couple of weeks focusing on starting the downswing with a hip-pivot, and a right shoulder downplane movement. I think I've been semi-successful at grooving these key movements, and it seems to me that just improving there has increased my lag and reduced my flip (even without specifically thinking about those things, though the casting and flip are still there).
I notice now, however, that I'm getting too lateral: My left hip gets outside the outer border of my left hip. So right now thats my focus: starting the DS with a hip-pivot, but one that is not so lateral.
Without further ado, here are my swings from a couple days ago. Note: I included a swing with the ball and without, because right now there is a noticeable difference in my swing in those two situations. This is something I'm working on.
|
|
|
Post by imperfectgolfer on Dec 21, 2011 19:48:20 GMT -5
Very nice swing!
Much better than my swing, and I'm a 6-handicap golfer from the senior tees.
You should be a single digit golfer with a swing of such good quality. Do you have a consistent ball flight fault?
Jeff.
|
|
|
Post by MKovner on Dec 21, 2011 21:13:16 GMT -5
Very nice swing! Much better than my swing, and I'm a 6-handicap golfer from the senior tees. You should be a single digit golfer with a swing of such good quality. Do you have a consistent ball flight fault? Jeff. Ha! Single Digits. My best round so far is 108. I appreciate the compliment though. It's very encouraging especially after my frustrating day at the range. Do you not think I'm casting and flipping? My consistent ball flight fault is a push, sometimes a push-slice. My driver was pretty much always a push-fade or push-slice, but I haven't picked it up in the past month since I've been working on rebuilding my swing. I've hypothesized that this could be due to switting, but I'm not sure. I know I used to get my elbow completely straightened by impact, and that hasn't been the case recently, but I don't think I've completely gotten rid of the inclination to push with the right arm. In 'How to Move the Arms' (I think), you talk about how that push with the right arm can prevent the club face from getting closed. Could that be the case with me? Oh also, I tried posting under my newly created account 'Kovner,' but it says that I must wait for an admin to approve that account, so I posted as a guest instead.
|
|
|
Post by MKovner on Dec 21, 2011 21:17:59 GMT -5
Oh, also, do you not think its a problem that my left hip gets outside the outer border of my left foot?
|
|
|
Post by imperfectgolfer on Dec 21, 2011 23:56:03 GMT -5
OK. My first impression was based on viewing your video for a few seconds - without any formal analysis. I have examined your face-on video using my V1 Home swing analyser program and it is now easier to identify your swing faults. I am not surprised that you push/push-slice the ball. Your lower body is outracing your arms and you get to the P6 position with an open pelvis and your arms still far behind you, and that will predispose to pushes/push-sliced shots. You have to acquire much better coordination between your body and arms. You have to learn to slot your power package at the same time as you move your pelvis in the downswing, so that you always "feel" that the arms are in front of the rotating torso. It is too labor-intensive to write about your other faults which are less deleterious. I am only an opinionated golf theorist and I try to avoid hands-on teaching. Good luck! Jeff.
|
|
|
Post by MKovner on Dec 22, 2011 19:04:01 GMT -5
I am only an opinionated golf theorist and I try to avoid hands-on teaching. . That's OK. I don't feel entitled to any free coaching, and you've certainly provided me with tons of free material already. Would you say that your goal is to keep this forum more devoted to the theoretical side of the golf swing, and that I should take my thread elsewhere, or is this type of thread interesting enough to keep around?
|
|
|
Post by imperfectgolfer on Dec 23, 2011 0:18:56 GMT -5
I think that you have joined the forum at an inopportune time.
The forum belongs to Rand Smith and I am merely a forum member who has previously started many threads. I am personally losing interest in participating in golf forums, and although I have already contributed a wealth of opinionated ideas re: golf swing mechanics/biomechanics that may be useful to new forum members, I am far less inclined to contribute as much as I did in the past, especially considering the fact that no other forum members are presenting contrary opinions re: golf swing mechanics/biomechanics that could generate a fruitful debate.
Jeff.
|
|
|
Post by gmbtempe on Dec 23, 2011 0:48:13 GMT -5
Its definitely a little burned out on my end.
I a sure if we get Jeffy back over here we would get plenty of contrary opinions to yours.
|
|
|
Post by imperfectgolfer on Dec 23, 2011 10:09:00 GMT -5
I personally do not think that your backswing shoulder turn is too flat as Greg inferred in the 3jack forum. I also don't understand why Denny recommends tracing a SPL drill.
You have to to keep your arms/hands in front of your rotating body and not let your body outrace your arms. Look at Annika Sorenstam in this video.
Jeff.
|
|
|
Post by gmbtempe on Dec 23, 2011 12:50:56 GMT -5
I personally do not think that your backswing shoulder turn is too flat as Greg inferred in the 3jack forum. I also don't understand why Denny recommends tracing a SPL drill. You have to to keep your arms/hands in front of your rotating body and not let your body outrace your arms. Look at Annika Sorenstam in this video. Jeff. I firmly believe that a flatter backswing does not help those who tend to get the club to far behind them. I have been steeping the shoulder turn as I have similar issues and I just cant get the hands as deep at P3 to P4. Look at the right elbow positions in this photo as an example of a better place IMO, from here it is much easier to abduct the right arm to the side. I am also searching for a video that will show this point better which I will like for him.
|
|
|
Post by nmgolfer on Dec 23, 2011 15:03:51 GMT -5
I have a couple of suggestions...
1) Tempo feels a little rushed... try hesitating at the top a bit longer
2) Hit balls. 500+ a day until your swing is second nature. That will also get your "golf" muscles in shape and steer you towards efficiency.
You swing looks a little "hesitant" not quite sure, not yet confident. It should be comfortable like an old worn out pair of sweats. Swinging that club should be as second nature as walking. If you live in a house set up a net in your garage and pound away the when summer arrives (IN AUGUST lol... grey wet seattle.. I used to live there) you'll be ready to hit the course.
With your swing grooved, you're going to find the fairway a lot more often than you probably are now and your score will drop rapidly. But the short game and putting is where the real score progress will be made. Definitely read peltz's stuff on putting on those long wet winter nights. SPC (statistical process control) is where its at ... find your weakness' and focus on them. Contrary to what these forums lead you to believe golf is not just the full swing.
|
|
|
Post by nmgolfer on Dec 23, 2011 15:11:23 GMT -5
PS forget lessons... most instructors will sooner screw you up than fix you (just my opinion )
|
|
|
Post by imperfectgolfer on Dec 23, 2011 23:32:02 GMT -5
Kovner, You wrote in the 3jack forum-: "I've tried to keep my right elbow pinned during the backswing and it feels awkward to me, and from my readings, there is no inherent biomechanical flaw in having that flying elbow in the backswing." What flying elbow? You like exactly like Tiger Woods and Adam Scott at the end-backswing position. I wish that I could get to look like you. Jeff.
|
|
|
Post by nmgolfer on Dec 24, 2011 10:45:53 GMT -5
Jack Nicholas too.. This is why I have a real problem with teachers specifying positions. I find I can hit much better letting the elbow fly and when I heard Jack say that's ok I began to stop listening to all the noise and just grooved my own swing. At that time I was hitting about 500 balls a day in the backyard. The first few months I was sore but now it doesn't phase me at all. Its a relaxed move not some strenuous affair. Just one warning when practicing your swing. Do it somewhere where you can properly hit down. If you swing on carpet in the house you will damage your swing. You need to be able to hit down (i.e. keep your left arm straight and take a divot post impact) and this means you need a spongy mat or something else to hit off of. I buried a broom with the bristles sticking up about 3 inches (level with my standing surface in my back yard range. That works well. Kovner, You wrote in the 3jack forum-: "I've tried to keep my right elbow pinned during the backswing and it feels awkward to me, and from my readings, there is no inherent biomechanical flaw in having that flying elbow in the backswing." What flying elbow? You like exactly like Tiger Woods and Adam Scott at the end-backswing position. I wish that I could get to look like you. Jeff.
|
|
|
Post by MKovner on Dec 25, 2011 19:14:18 GMT -5
What flying elbow? You like exactly like Tiger Woods and Adam Scott at the end-backswing position. I wish that I could get to look like you. Well, it seems to me that those pics aren't exactly DTL, and that if you did have an exact-DTL pic, their elbows would look slightly less behind them (less so than mine). Nonetheless, thank you for confirming that I really shouldn't be worried about that position. Do you agree with tba's assessment that the fact that I I'm flat in the takeaway makes the 2nd half of my backswing steep, which makes the the beginning of my downswing too steep. I've seen anything stating that correlation and I don't see how they would be necessarily biomechanically correlated. 2) Hit balls. 500+ a day until your swing is second nature. That will also get your "golf" muscles in shape and steer you towards efficiency. You swing looks a little "hesitant" not quite sure, not yet confident. It should be comfortable like an old worn out pair of sweats. Swinging that club should be as second nature as walking. If you live in a house set up a net in your garage and pound away the when summer arrives (IN AUGUST lol... grey wet seattle.. I used to live there) you'll be ready to hit the course. I had a grooved swing at the end of last season. But it wasn't good, so I'm rebuilding it. I'm fixing one move at a time, grooving that specific move, and then moving on to the next. Your suggestion to just hit 500 balls a day, that's just silly. Quality over quantity. During the 2.5-3hrs per week that I have at the range, I probably hit about 120-150 balls, but every ball I hit, I learn something. I have a biomechanical goal that I actively think about before I hit, then I hit, then I consider how well I accomplished that goal. Banging bucket after bucket is what keeps people at +20 after playing the game for 30 years. You don't learn much from it. And yeah, I know hitting off of mats sucks, but its my only option. All of the ranges in Seattle are covered and therefore have to use mats.
|
|