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Post by natep on Dec 17, 2010 23:23:03 GMT -5
Mandrin's posts at BM's are some of the best I've ever come across, regarding science and golf. I have bookmarked all of the links he provided for his models, etc. I have learned a very great deal from his work there. His contribution to the forum is priceless.
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Post by wedgey on Dec 17, 2010 23:35:34 GMT -5
You do realize he's a retired garbage man er (sanitation engineer) from Poughkeepsie don't you? His son was a College student with access to Matlab and a canned double pendulum solution. It was all a scam! You didn't miss much. In a way it seems like the internet is dying. All forums are less vibrant. I don't know, he doesn't seem to post that much from what i have read, Horton aka Steve T is in there a lot, it's really kind of boring there i bet the early days were a lot more fun. Hey! what ever happened to that Mandrin guy, he never posts anymore. I have no idea who he is, how did you find that out? or are you just kidding?
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Post by wedgey on Dec 17, 2010 23:38:20 GMT -5
By the way is c.f. a real force or a fictional force?.... O.M.G. i didn't ask that did i?....lol.
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Post by wedgey on Dec 17, 2010 23:39:39 GMT -5
That had to be the all time thread of threads. How many pages?
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Post by natep on Dec 17, 2010 23:49:53 GMT -5
Let me ask you guys this... Do you believe the numbers? Cause I don't! Every time I look at that place it say there are 104 viewing or 99 viewing or 89 viewing... Then I look inside and see the same half dozen screen names talking about the same boring stuff... over and over... a real twightlight zone where nothing seems real and nothing ever changes. Some might call it heaven.... What are you implying by this? That the numbers are fixed? What would be the point? I have observed that there always seems to be at least 70 or so guests viewing. It doesnt seem odd to me that there are lots of people who lurk the forum and dont post.
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Post by natep on Dec 18, 2010 0:31:14 GMT -5
Interesting......just showed 130 total viewing but only 18 on the first page. That's a pretty astute observation. You must have had a lot of time on your hands.
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Post by natep on Dec 18, 2010 1:54:28 GMT -5
nmgolfer,
After browsing through the archives of various forums I agree that the forums are not as vibrant as they used to be.
It's unfortunate.
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Post by tightdraw on Dec 18, 2010 6:04:34 GMT -5
Things run their course and lose their energy. It's a natural process. They need to be reinvigorated. Typically, the easy way to get energized is to get negative. It's too bad. Worse, it's like politics: making sure you appeal to your base and doing all you can not to lose them. It has a good deal less to do with solving problems and gaining insight than it has to do with insuring one's place; very familiar practice of building oneself up by knocking others down. It's tiresome. I love learning and experimenting and deepening my understanding. It's more work than ever to do that on the internet. It's a great place for information, but there is so much noise it's hard to sort out the information from the self-promotion.
Here's an interesting (at least to me) analogy. I have lots of friends and connections in the music business. In fact, two of my three children have a band. in the old days, the labels and the radio stations controlled music and what was heard. One disadvantage of course was the control both exercised and the impact on risk taking and creativity. Then it all blew up and there was the internet. Now there is tons of creativity and risk, but no filters. There's lots that's good but much harder to find. And quality is all over the map.
That's part of the price of the internet. Search costs are actually way up because there is so much more to search through to find what you are looking for. It's that way in every field that doesn't have an opinion leader. So people troll the forums looking for useful information. They get excited for a while, then lose interest and move on.
Sustaining a forum for a long period of time is hard because it depends on the energy of the participants and that has a natural ebb and flow to it.
Some forums survive the way private clubs used to survive: by identifying who can't belong and thus feeling good about belonging. Identifying the unworthy 'other' and blaming the other; and accusing the other of not understanding, of trying to undermine and the like. My advise here. It's better to just ignore such places than to focus on them. Use the limited energies we all have positively. I think there is a good deal of positive energy here and at 3Jack's forum. With only a finite amount of energy in each of us, invest it in things worthy of the investment.
Just my twenty five cents.
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Post by wedgey on Dec 18, 2010 14:55:37 GMT -5
Things run their course and lose their energy. It's a natural process. They need to be reinvigorated. Typically, the easy way to get energized is to get negative. It's too bad. Worse, it's like politics: making sure you appeal to your base and doing all you can not to lose them. It has a good deal less to do with solving problems and gaining insight than it has to do with insuring one's place; very familiar practice of building oneself up by knocking others down. It's tiresome. I love learning and experimenting and deepening my understanding. It's more work than ever to do that on the internet. It's a great place for information, but there is so much noise it's hard to sort out the information from the self-promotion. Here's an interesting (at least to me) analogy. I have lots of friends and connections in the music business. In fact, two of my three children have a band. in the old days, the labels and the radio stations controlled music and what was heard. One disadvantage of course was the control both exercised and the impact on risk taking and creativity. Then it all blew up and there was the internet. Now there is tons of creativity and risk, but no filters. There's lots that's good but much harder to find. And quality is all over the map. That's part of the price of the internet. Search costs are actually way up because there is so much more to search through to find what you are looking for. It's that way in every field that doesn't have an opinion leader. So people troll the forums looking for useful information. They get excited for a while, then lose interest and move on. Sustaining a forum for a long period of time is hard because it depends on the energy of the participants and that has a natural ebb and flow to it. Some forums survive the way private clubs used to survive: by identifying who can't belong and thus feeling good about belonging. Identifying the unworthy 'other' and blaming the other; and accusing the other of not understanding, of trying to undermine and the like. My advise here. It's better to just ignore such places than to focus on them. Use the limited energies we all have positively. I think there is a good deal of positive energy here and at 3Jack's forum. With only a finite amount of energy in each of us, invest it in things worthy of the investment. Just my twenty five cents. It's interesting the first post starts out negative and mocking another forum about something that happened 7 yrs. ago and then another poster jumps on the let's bash B.M and his forum bandwagon, now it's let's all be positive and play nice, some people need to let go of the hate and move on, i would hope this is finished all this negative energy and we can talk golf, it gets old.
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Post by bullet on Dec 18, 2010 18:11:31 GMT -5
What gets old wedgey is folks like yourself actually posting stuff about morad or other methods ( and you did that right here with the cut and paste ) without having any idea what you are talking about and then expect everyone to actually sit back and pat you on the back. Hate is not the word either , its simply entertaining watching yahoos with uneducated statements getting exposed for what they are, and that particular debate was 5 years ago , but its a place littered with similar examples through-out any period
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Post by wedgey on Dec 18, 2010 19:37:25 GMT -5
It wasn't my post was it, it was Horton's, so i never talked about Morad did i, and i didn't ask for a pat on the back from "everyone" did i, you started the whole thing didn't you, you brought up Horton as a poor martyr of some kind 5yrs ago didn't you, wow! i think you just got exposed as someone making up statements with no validity about what i said. The cut and paste was an example of someone who you used as a person that put B.M. in his place, yet that very person has no idea of Morad, so basically you exposed the very person you held up as your shining knight( Horton) that slew the big bad B.M. as knowing nothing about morad or other methods. That's really hillarious and like kicking yourself in the nuts with your own boot isn't it. Or in your case shooting yourself in the foot, right, BULLET. Big bad B.M. hurt your feelings, ahhh poor baby! need a kleenex? ... LOL
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Post by bullet on Dec 18, 2010 19:50:56 GMT -5
It wasn't my post was it, it was Horton's, so i never talked about Morad did i, and i didn't ask for a pat on the back from "everyone" did i, you started the whole thing didn't you, you brought up Horton as a poor martyr of some kind 5yrs ago didn't you, wow! i think you just got exposed as someone making up statements with no validity about what i said. The cut and paste was an example of someone who you used as a person that put B.M. in his place, yet that very person has no idea of Morad, so basically you exposed the very person you held up as your shining knight( Horton) that slew the big bad B.M. as knowing nothing about morad or other methods. That's really hillarious and like kicking yourself in the nuts with your own boot isn't it. Or in your case shooting yourself in the foot, right, BULLET. Big bad B.M. hurt your feelings, ahhh poor baby! need a kleenex? ... LOL obviously you are exposing yourself for your lack of understanding written english, as the actual morad definitions were posted in this thread and the one that old Horton batted out of the ballpark were ones written by a yahoo who has no idea . of course if you had any idea , you would not have cut and paste junk written by the original yahoo and used it as an example ..... so you kinda are the one shooting yourself in the foot as to manzella , he isn't on my radar where it counts , and thats the golf course Horton slew the big bad Manzella as you say is a shining knight , there have been many many more , they just got banned or deleted One of the funniest was years ago on a tgm forum with manzella bignoting himself on every thread and quoting this and that , and up pops a guy called Yoda to strike him down with the light sabre on his warped versions of TGm ....... classic stuff..... and thats when it all started for manzella and his crusade against the tripoders
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Post by wedgey on Dec 18, 2010 20:05:37 GMT -5
This is the post below, so if Horton knew anything about morad he would know they aren't release points like you said so Horton knows nothing about methods, just science and he admitted he doesn't even play golf, go figure another expert that doesn't even play.
I got the point, and all the other methods have (warts/incorrect science) also and they can be pointed out by Horton (alias the goofy guy) if he wanted to, and i believe he did say something about cp and cf terminology as incorrect it was in some post anyways , no method is "the method" and none works for everyone so it's like pick your poison and live with it, i mean die with it...lol.
o.p. says: I believe these are Morad based terms to describe different release types.
Horton replies:This is a prime example of ignorance of scientific terminology applied to golfswing fantasies..!!!!
Centripetal and centrifugal are kinetic concepts, NOT applicable to the descriptive positional geometry definitions you provide.
He is saying they are kinetic concepts not baseline or whatever else you are implying they are so you and morad are using incorrect scientific terms, according to your hero.
How's your nut's feeling, i can't imagine how that must hurt.....lol. Isn't morad based on science...lol.
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Post by wedgey on Dec 18, 2010 20:33:46 GMT -5
SteveT Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 528 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Quote: Originally Posted by birly-shirly SteveT However much you huff and puff, I've yet to see a shred of evidence in anything you've posted that you (a) know anything that would help anyone; (b) even want to help anyone; or (c) can actually play this game. (a) I think I just helped dlam and he thanked me too: left thumb position (b) I tried to help Brian on the TGM science scam some 6 years ago .. and now he graciously acknowledges my efforts to enlighten him. Brian strives for self-improvement. (c) Guilty ... I don't play golf ... I'm just an academic expert (which even Brian aspires to be now) ... BTW ... were you one of the TGM-Homer attack trolls attempting to discredit me when I was 'Horton' (you should read up on 'Horton' in the forum archives) .. Looks like Horton doesn't hold a grudge for 5 yrs and likes B.M. and admits he doesnt play golf. lol.
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Post by bullet on Dec 18, 2010 20:40:47 GMT -5
Morad and its category of components within its system are there terminology for what's in a golf swing, did anyone ever say that this list is based on science.......... for instance the right elbow has 3 location types , the ball position has a bunch of ball location with a code attached , the tilts have 3 categories and so on..... and a lot of terms are actually more medical based...... now I guess you can argue all that with O'Grady ..... so actually what science of morad has been "blown up".... none , because its not been presented
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