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Post by natep on Dec 19, 2010 21:56:00 GMT -5
TGM says that starting at impact the left arm starts a hinging action at the shoulder. In this case a horizontal hinge, like on a door frame.
Yes, the clubface would turn over and the toe would point up in the air after impact. TGM just says that the whole arm is hinging beginning at impact.
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Post by youngsiwalker on Dec 19, 2010 22:07:00 GMT -5
i belive jeff mann states that the left forearm doesnt continue to rotate past neutral at impact so the HH takes place but the toe wouldnt be up if the forearm was in neutral ?
Im not saying thats right but i just cant see how the forearm doesnt continue to rotate aswell as the HH taking place
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Post by imperfectgolfer on Dec 19, 2010 22:10:59 GMT -5
Natep,
You wrote-: "In my opinion these TGM concepts have little value."
You actually manifest a good understanding of TGM concepts.
However, you state that they have little value. Why do you think that TGMers find these concepts (like an intact LAFW) useful, while you do not find them useful?
Jeff.
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Post by natep on Dec 19, 2010 22:18:03 GMT -5
Jeff,
There are too many exceptions to the LAFW concept to even make it worthwhile in my opinion.
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Post by bullet on Dec 19, 2010 22:21:25 GMT -5
TGM says that starting at impact the left arm starts a hinging action at the shoulder. In this case a horizontal hinge, like on a door frame. Yes, the clubface would turn over and the toe would point up in the air after impact. TGM just says that the whole arm is hinging beginning at impact. How does the face turning over represent hinge?
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Post by imperfectgolfer on Dec 19, 2010 22:22:57 GMT -5
Natep,
Do you believe that are significant exceptions to an intact LAFW during the downswing?
Can you provide examples?
Thanks,
Jeff.
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Post by natep on Dec 19, 2010 22:28:49 GMT -5
TGM says that starting at impact the left arm starts a hinging action at the shoulder. In this case a horizontal hinge, like on a door frame. Yes, the clubface would turn over and the toe would point up in the air after impact. TGM just says that the whole arm is hinging beginning at impact. How does the face turning over represent hinge? It is my understanding that HH closes the clubface while the left wrist remains vertical.
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Post by natep on Dec 19, 2010 22:32:24 GMT -5
Natep, Do you believe that are significant exceptions to an intact LAFW during the downswing? Can you provide examples? Thanks, Jeff. This depends on our own perceptions of significant. Since you have limited the scope of the question to the downswing, I'd say no, I dont think there are significant exceptions to the LAFW concept on the downswing.
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Post by imperfectgolfer on Dec 19, 2010 22:33:22 GMT -5
Here is a swing analysis of AS's swing by WdF. He makes two claims. Claim 1: He states that she has a wide open clubface at the end-backswing position - see image 1. I presume that he is referring to the clubface angle relative to the horizon (as a reference). I cannot understand why the horizon has any relevance. Surely, the concept of an open clubface only has relevance to an individual golfer's clubhead arc, and I cannot understand how one can state that her clubface is open relative to her clubhead arc. Claim 2. He doesn't like the dynamics of her pivot action - at 5:38 minutes, he states that she lacks dynamics in her mid-section, and that it causes "shaft headaches". He is referring to the fact that her shaft becomes underplane in her mid-downswing. Two points - i) why is that a problem, rather than an advantage and ii) how is it caused by her "lack of dynamics in her mid-section"? Jeff.
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Post by imperfectgolfer on Dec 19, 2010 22:40:32 GMT -5
Natep,
You wrote-: "Since you have limited the scope of the question to the downswing, I'd say no, I dont think there are significant exceptions to the LAFW concept on the downswing."
I personally think that the intact LAFW concept mainly has value with respect to the downswing. I think that it is optional whether a golfer should have an intact LAFW during the backswing, but I mentally perceive that it can simplify the backswing action if one likes to use a RFT action.
I think that it is acceptable to have a slightly disrupted LAFW in the downswing - as long as the LW is arched rather than bent, because an arched LW moves the club underplane relative to the left arm's axis, and that can help to increase the efficiency of the release swivel action for a given amount of torque power.
Jeff.
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Post by natep on Dec 19, 2010 22:49:46 GMT -5
Jeff,
I agree.
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Post by bullet on Dec 20, 2010 1:09:36 GMT -5
How does the face turning over represent hinge? It is my understanding that HH closes the clubface while the left wrist remains vertical. Thats a different answer to your statement , what about plane angle for sweetspot path , how would that change your answer again and whats the left wrist vertical too in HH ?
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Post by natep on Dec 20, 2010 1:21:39 GMT -5
It is my understanding that HH closes the clubface while the left wrist remains vertical. Thats a different answer to your statement , what about plane angle for sweetspot path , how would that change your answer again and whats the left wrist vertical too in HH ? Sorry, I don't understand this question.
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Post by bullet on Dec 20, 2010 2:56:03 GMT -5
Thats a different answer to your statement , what about plane angle for sweetspot path , how would that change your answer again and whats the left wrist vertical too in HH ? Sorry, I don't understand this question. I thought you knew TGM
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Post by natep on Dec 20, 2010 3:13:46 GMT -5
The way your question/statement is worded it is unclear to me precisely what it means.
I'm familiar with much of TGM. I don't know it all, and I never claimed to. Truthfully, while studying it I came across so many egregious errors that it hardly seemed worthwhile to continue any further.
Hinge actions, when interpreted to be a manipulation of the clubface during the impact interval, starting at impact, with a supposed effect on ballflight, is but one such concept that I find absurd.
I was replying to questions that youngsiwalker had, with the intent of helping to provide him with some insight. If my answers are incorrect in your opinion, then why don't you try to help provide a better explanation to him?
In my opinion it would be more helpful to enlighten youngsiwalker, who actually seems to be interested in TGM, than it would be to try to start a debate with me, since I'm not interested and couldn't care less about it.
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