Post by dubiousgolfer on Mar 23, 2018 9:09:15 GMT -5
Dr Mann
I've been looking at the Lynn Blake forum threads and posts and noticed one particular post below about 'hitting/swinging/throwing. Although I tried, it seems that one cannot register on this forum anymore to pose questions (maybe it is no longer in operation). What interested me is the section I highlighted below and I've always been confused about the term throwing vs hitting and swinging. Is there a definitive biomechanical explanation for a 'Throwing' action?
It almost seems from this post (by a person called O.B.Left), that a throwing action is similar to your PA5 accumulator (adduction of the right upper arm). Maybe its the same for the abduction of the left upper arm too (ie. a throw)? Could a 'Throw' be defined as the adduction/abduction of the upper arms independent from any movement influence by the shoulder sockets?
Do you think this definition of a 'Throw' has any merit?
I don't know how O.B.Left defines 'Shoulder' , but if he meant 'Shoulder Socket' , I would regard that as part of the 'Pivot' action so I am assuming he must mean upper arm/humerus.
Regards
DG
PS. After thinking about this a bit more, throwing is just another play on words to describe a 'feel' of a motion and cannot really be defined uniquely like a 'Swing' or 'Hit'.
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You can push and pull at the same time BUT there are implications. The implications dependent upon what point you are at in the swing. For instance if you were in start down, pushing at the #1 is radial and will destroy the pullings longitudinal....so they are at cross purposes. Mutually exclusive in terms of longitudinal and radial. Longitudinal delaying release , radial being release.
Now take pulling radially and pushing radially say in a putting stroke or in the case of a push/pull initiated during the radial acceleration portion of a full stroke ........You can do this as well. This time with no disruption of longitudinal because it assumed to be not present in the first place, BUT here you are subject to the fact that the right arm push and the left arm pull do not have the same directional vectors to their respective forces. Their forces are not aligned , not pointing in the same exact direction. The arms themselves attach to the body at different places , opposite shoulders and therefor their associated movements are not identical nor is the direction of the force they apply. Scattered vectors being a disruption to Total Compression 2-C. Two horses bridled to a cart but pointing in different directions. The extent to which you employ them together at the same time is the extent to which you will have compensate for the inherent divergence in their vectors. This maybe the #1 reason for my improved putting , that and Hinge Action. Although I go back and forth between pulling it back with the right and then pulling it through with the left or pushing it through with the right or rocking the shoulders it through all with one accumulator and Angled Hinge Action. Ah component separation , thank you Lynn. But I digress.
Homer's prescription: Pull (swing) or Push (hit) or Pull then Push (four b) but dont push and pull at the same time , its especially damaging in Startdown , less so during radial acceleration but still incredibly disruptive given the critical nature of that stage....impact, putting etc.
Even on the way back in the backswing Homer tried to separate Pulling and Pushing. The Push of the shoulder turn takeaway, which is inept at getting the club UP (in Total Motion) and instead tends to take it IN too much , under plane, ........gives way to a Right Forearm Takeaway or "Pick up" which is a definite Pull. So Swinger and Hitter alike both Pull on the way back, be it a "swing back" or a "carry back". That isnt to say you cant employ a Shoulder Turn takeaway.............. Bobby Clampett , Plummer and B, Mac even maybe ........ But Homer preferred a Pull there. Like Seve employed. Yes Seve......its in his book. The Paderno of his youth was safely removed from the golf digests of the 60's and early 70's.
Push or Pull or Pull then Push but dont push and pull at the same time if you want to be straight as well as powerful.
I'm not saying you cant Throw it. I do. To my mind you can actively " throw" a push or a pull. Hit or Right Arm Swing. The "throw" also seems to lie within the distinction of the position of the right elbow to me.......Push vs Punch. Push basic (short shots only) vs Right Arm throw, fanning and bending. I Right Arm Throw, right after I Throw my Right s
houlder. Just as I was taught to do......at the Swamp and Cuscowilla.
In fact Id go so far as to say that if anyone here is trying to Hit, full shots, total motion, with an inline "punching", shot putting, Push Basic motion ............. STOP. Ralph demonstrates his definition of a Hit as being inline push with a sort of knock down type abbreviated follow through. Thats a different fish......... a different argument ..........a knock down argument per Humpty Dumpty.
I've been looking at the Lynn Blake forum threads and posts and noticed one particular post below about 'hitting/swinging/throwing. Although I tried, it seems that one cannot register on this forum anymore to pose questions (maybe it is no longer in operation). What interested me is the section I highlighted below and I've always been confused about the term throwing vs hitting and swinging. Is there a definitive biomechanical explanation for a 'Throwing' action?
It almost seems from this post (by a person called O.B.Left), that a throwing action is similar to your PA5 accumulator (adduction of the right upper arm). Maybe its the same for the abduction of the left upper arm too (ie. a throw)? Could a 'Throw' be defined as the adduction/abduction of the upper arms independent from any movement influence by the shoulder sockets?
Do you think this definition of a 'Throw' has any merit?
I don't know how O.B.Left defines 'Shoulder' , but if he meant 'Shoulder Socket' , I would regard that as part of the 'Pivot' action so I am assuming he must mean upper arm/humerus.
Regards
DG
PS. After thinking about this a bit more, throwing is just another play on words to describe a 'feel' of a motion and cannot really be defined uniquely like a 'Swing' or 'Hit'.
---------------
You can push and pull at the same time BUT there are implications. The implications dependent upon what point you are at in the swing. For instance if you were in start down, pushing at the #1 is radial and will destroy the pullings longitudinal....so they are at cross purposes. Mutually exclusive in terms of longitudinal and radial. Longitudinal delaying release , radial being release.
Now take pulling radially and pushing radially say in a putting stroke or in the case of a push/pull initiated during the radial acceleration portion of a full stroke ........You can do this as well. This time with no disruption of longitudinal because it assumed to be not present in the first place, BUT here you are subject to the fact that the right arm push and the left arm pull do not have the same directional vectors to their respective forces. Their forces are not aligned , not pointing in the same exact direction. The arms themselves attach to the body at different places , opposite shoulders and therefor their associated movements are not identical nor is the direction of the force they apply. Scattered vectors being a disruption to Total Compression 2-C. Two horses bridled to a cart but pointing in different directions. The extent to which you employ them together at the same time is the extent to which you will have compensate for the inherent divergence in their vectors. This maybe the #1 reason for my improved putting , that and Hinge Action. Although I go back and forth between pulling it back with the right and then pulling it through with the left or pushing it through with the right or rocking the shoulders it through all with one accumulator and Angled Hinge Action. Ah component separation , thank you Lynn. But I digress.
Homer's prescription: Pull (swing) or Push (hit) or Pull then Push (four b) but dont push and pull at the same time , its especially damaging in Startdown , less so during radial acceleration but still incredibly disruptive given the critical nature of that stage....impact, putting etc.
Even on the way back in the backswing Homer tried to separate Pulling and Pushing. The Push of the shoulder turn takeaway, which is inept at getting the club UP (in Total Motion) and instead tends to take it IN too much , under plane, ........gives way to a Right Forearm Takeaway or "Pick up" which is a definite Pull. So Swinger and Hitter alike both Pull on the way back, be it a "swing back" or a "carry back". That isnt to say you cant employ a Shoulder Turn takeaway.............. Bobby Clampett , Plummer and B, Mac even maybe ........ But Homer preferred a Pull there. Like Seve employed. Yes Seve......its in his book. The Paderno of his youth was safely removed from the golf digests of the 60's and early 70's.
Push or Pull or Pull then Push but dont push and pull at the same time if you want to be straight as well as powerful.
I'm not saying you cant Throw it. I do. To my mind you can actively " throw" a push or a pull. Hit or Right Arm Swing. The "throw" also seems to lie within the distinction of the position of the right elbow to me.......Push vs Punch. Push basic (short shots only) vs Right Arm throw, fanning and bending. I Right Arm Throw, right after I Throw my Right s
houlder. Just as I was taught to do......at the Swamp and Cuscowilla.
In fact Id go so far as to say that if anyone here is trying to Hit, full shots, total motion, with an inline "punching", shot putting, Push Basic motion ............. STOP. Ralph demonstrates his definition of a Hit as being inline push with a sort of knock down type abbreviated follow through. Thats a different fish......... a different argument ..........a knock down argument per Humpty Dumpty.