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Post by gmbtempe on Jan 9, 2011 1:21:28 GMT -5
Golfer has a closed stance line and traces a plane line well left the ball target line. Ball starts out perfectly on his selected plane line and never curves, did he hit a pull or did he hit a straight shot?
I contend he hit a straight shot. The stance line means nothing. Its about the selected plane line and face angle. It would be a pull if it started out left of his plane line. It would be a push if it started out to the right.
Sam Snead hit a straight shot but everyone says it was a pull (yes his ball often drew but it was straight meaning it started along his plane line).
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Post by natep on Jan 9, 2011 2:02:39 GMT -5
I see what you mean. I dont know. I just always consider it a pull if i hit it left of where I aimed it, regardless of where the feet or plane are pointed.
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Post by wedgey on Jan 9, 2011 2:44:15 GMT -5
Golfer has a closed stance line and traces a plane line well left the ball target line. Ball starts out perfectly on his selected plane line and never curves, did he hit a pull or did he hit a straight shot? I contend he hit a straight shot. The stance line means nothing. Its about the selected plane line and face angle. It would be a pull if it started out left of his plane line. It would be a push if it started out to the right. Sam Snead hit a straight shot but everyone says it was a pull (yes his ball often drew but it was straight meaning it started along his plane line). I agree, you know what you intended and the viewer doesn't to them they see a pull but you know what you intended and it's a straight shot from your perspective, what difference does stance mean as long as you can hit your intended flight line.
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Post by aimsmithgolf on Jan 9, 2011 12:00:25 GMT -5
Golfer has a closed stance line and traces a plane line well left the ball target line. Ball starts out perfectly on his selected plane line and never curves, did he hit a pull or did he hit a straight shot? I contend he hit a straight shot. The stance line means nothing. Its about the selected plane line and face angle. It would be a pull if it started out left of his plane line. It would be a push if it started out to the right. Sam Snead hit a straight shot but everyone says it was a pull (yes his ball often drew but it was straight meaning it started along his plane line). Could it be both?? I guess it all depends on golfer's target. Right? Rand
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Post by gmbtempe on Jan 9, 2011 12:36:02 GMT -5
Here is the reason I brought this up, came from my lesson Friday in Tucson (less then a couple miles from that incident on Saturday by the way ) :
I worked on my swing and pattern with my instructor, it has a baseline shift to the left with the shoulders and path. Took about an hour to incorporate some new concepts and then he put down a few balls and aligned my stance closed and had me hit several shots, they were all monster pulls to my stance line but had little or no curve. Alignments though were superior to anything before for me, wrist flat, P6 position was as far forward as ever, no throwaway, shoulders way more open at impact, no chicken wing.
So then he laid the sticks down so that my stance was well right of the target (a green and flag) and I hit the shots again, and dang if I did not flush it at the green time after time. Was I pulling it? Now that I understood that my plane had been shifted and got out of the mind set of stance line the ball started and landed right where I wanted, straight shot in my book.
Here is another interesting thing, he set up the camera parallel with the stance line as what is customary described for a good angle and it looked horribly over the top. Then he filmed it along my new shifted plane line left of the target, dang if it was not right on plane.
So I learned a lot, lot more than just those couple things, but perspective is pretty important in looking at the golf swing.
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Post by wedgey on Jan 9, 2011 14:50:29 GMT -5
B.M.'s carry.
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Post by gmbtempe on Jan 9, 2011 18:23:18 GMT -5
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Post by wedgey on Jan 9, 2011 20:11:18 GMT -5
That looks like a straight shot from the camera angle it looks like your aimed there regardless of your footline and you hit it there.
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Post by gmbtempe on Jan 9, 2011 20:41:59 GMT -5
That looks like a straight shot from the camera angle it looks like your aimed there regardless of your footline and you hit it there. Yea, think I want the shoulders a hair more closed but thats what I see, I dont see a pull to the stance line because it start out pretty much at the direction I set the face, it was a slight pull maybe 5 yards.
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Post by wedgey on Jan 9, 2011 21:10:59 GMT -5
That looks like a straight shot from the camera angle it looks like your aimed there regardless of your footline and you hit it there. Yea, think I want the shoulders a hair more closed but thats what I see, I dont see a pull to the stance line because it start out pretty much at the direction I set the face, it was a slight pull maybe 5 yards. I like it, nice work.
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Post by imperfectgolfer on Feb 18, 2011 11:08:45 GMT -5
Greg asked-: "Golfer has a closed stance line and traces a plane line well left the ball target line. Ball starts out perfectly on his selected plane line and never curves, did he hit a pull or did he hit a straight shot?"
I have always believed that the definition of a pull or push refers to the ball-target line - irrespective of one's stance line.
All diagrams of the ball flight laws (old and new) only refer to the ball-target line.
I am also interested in learning how it is biomechanically possible to trace a SPL that is oriented well left of the ball-target from a closed stance - unless one is coming excessively OTT and swinging out-to-in across one's stance line.
Jeff.
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Post by teeitup on Feb 18, 2011 11:28:38 GMT -5
Selected plane line, isn't that the target line, regardless of stance.
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Post by gmbtempe on Feb 18, 2011 12:02:10 GMT -5
Selected plane line, isn't that the target line, regardless of stance. A man of few words can often say a lot
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Post by imperfectgolfer on Feb 18, 2011 13:40:01 GMT -5
How can the selected plane line ever be the target line (unless it lies on the ball-target line)? By definition, the target line must be a straight line drawn between the ball and the target. One can, of course, use a plane line that is angled left-or-right of the ball-target line in order to hit a controlled draw or fade towards a distant target - but the fact remains that the target is unalterable, and its relationship to the ball is unalterable, and they define how ball flight paths should be described. A straight pull occurs when the clubhead path is out-to-in and the clubface orientation is left-of-the target, so that there is no divergence between the clubhead path and clubface orientation angle at impact (presuming a level strike on the sweetspot). Jeff.
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Post by gmbtempe on Feb 18, 2011 23:05:10 GMT -5
Jeff,
Thats not the way some people describe a pull, some would say its any shot that starts left of the stance line, not the plane line. I relate everything to the plane line and can care less about stance-shoulder line.
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