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Post by dubiousgolfer on Apr 28, 2019 9:22:39 GMT -5
Dr Mann Just reading through some of your website again about Lee Westwoods swing where you classified him as a 'Swing Hitter' . But is he still evoking a CF release to create clubhead speed? If you look at the clubshaft in image 5 , it seems to show forward shaft bend which suggests a negative torque at the grip end (as per Dave Tutelman's website). So can a punch elbow type action also be used in such a way as to increase tangential speed plus also change the hand path to a more circular arc , and therefore evoke a CF induced release? DB
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Post by imperfectgolfer on Apr 28, 2019 21:34:20 GMT -5
Dr Mann Just reading through some of your website again about Lee Westwoods swing where you classified him as a 'Swing Hitter' . But is he still evoking a CF release to create clubhead speed? If you look at the clubshaft in image 5 , it seems to show forward shaft bend which suggests a negative torque at the grip end (as per Dave Tutelman's website). So can a punch elbow type action also be used in such a way as to increase tangential speed plus also change the hand path to a more circular arc , and therefore evoke a CF induced release? DB I have often suspected that Lee Westwood could be a right arm swinger. If I am correct, then he would be applying pressure with his right palm against PP#1 when he releases PP#5. That positive pressure exerted by the right palm would be strongly positive between P4 and P5.5 and then diminish rapidly between P5.5 and impact so that there is no positive torque being exerted in the late downswing. He could indeed use his right arm's punch elbow motion to create a hand arc path that would release PA#2 in a CF-induced manner - as you suggested. I no longer think that he could be a swing-hitter because that would imply continued positive torque all the way into impact using an active release of PA#1. However, the fact that his peripheral clubshaft is bent forwards in his later downswing suggests that he is not applying a positive torque at wrist level during that time period. Jeff.
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Post by dubiousgolfer on Apr 29, 2019 7:57:03 GMT -5
Many thanks Dr Mann
DB
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Post by dubiousgolfer on Apr 30, 2019 7:36:47 GMT -5
Dr Mann Just reading through some of your website again about Lee Westwoods swing where you classified him as a 'Swing Hitter' . But is he still evoking a CF release to create clubhead speed? If you look at the clubshaft in image 5 , it seems to show forward shaft bend which suggests a negative torque at the grip end (as per Dave Tutelman's website). So can a punch elbow type action also be used in such a way as to increase tangential speed plus also change the hand path to a more circular arc , and therefore evoke a CF induced release? DB I have often suspected that Lee Westwood could be a right arm swinger. If I am correct, then he would be applying pressure with his right palm against PP#1 when he releases PP#5. That positive pressure exerted by the right palm would be strongly positive between P4 and P5.5 and then diminish rapidly between P5.5 and impact so that there is no positive torque being exerted in the late downswing. He could indeed use his right arm's punch elbow motion to create a hand arc path that would release PA#2 in a CF-induced manner - as you suggested. I no longer think that he could be a swing-hitter because that would imply continued positive torque all the way into impact using an active release of PA#1. However, the fact that his peripheral clubshaft is bent forwards in his later downswing suggests that he is not applying a positive torque at wrist level during that time period. Jeff. Dr Mann I was looking at this slow motion video of Lee Westwood and noticed something about his left bicep from P5 - P7.2. It's progressively contracting and doesn't seem 'inert' (which I assume is a trait of a hitter or right arm swinger ). Does this mean that he is also actively using his left arm to change the hand/hub path to evoke CF effect? He has also dipped his upper body in the backswing (left lateral flexion of the spine ?) and unsure if it dipped even more in the downswing, but does that mean he has to fold his left forearm up using his contracted bicep to stop hitting it fat? Especially if he is not allowing his lead shoulder joint to increase in height enough to allow a straight left arm through impact. Is that a fair assessment? Addendum: When I look at P5.5 (at about 1:07 -1:08) , that is where the left bicep contraction is very noticeable. I think the direction of the force across the grip by his left hand will be directed more towards his left shoulder. That will cause a 'moment of force' on the club's COG which will try and align with the 'tail' end of that force and increase clubhead speed (ie. that is basically the physics of the CF effect). Westwood is not using a pull force on the grip via his left shoulder joint (and straight left arm) with his upper body rotation but timing the pull with a contraction of his left bicep. I cannot see how his right hand can direct a force across the grip towards the lead shoulder to evoke a similar CF effect. DB (apologies for the edits - just couldn't figure out the mechanics vs forces/torques)
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Post by imperfectgolfer on May 1, 2019 9:17:00 GMT -5
I have often suspected that Lee Westwood could be a right arm swinger. If I am correct, then he would be applying pressure with his right palm against PP#1 when he releases PP#5. That positive pressure exerted by the right palm would be strongly positive between P4 and P5.5 and then diminish rapidly between P5.5 and impact so that there is no positive torque being exerted in the late downswing. He could indeed use his right arm's punch elbow motion to create a hand arc path that would release PA#2 in a CF-induced manner - as you suggested. I no longer think that he could be a swing-hitter because that would imply continued positive torque all the way into impact using an active release of PA#1. However, the fact that his peripheral clubshaft is bent forwards in his later downswing suggests that he is not applying a positive torque at wrist level during that time period. Jeff. Dr Mann I was looking at this slow motion video of Lee Westwood and noticed something about his left bicep from P5 - P7.2. It's progressively contracting and doesn't seem 'inert' (which I assume is a trait of a hitter or right arm swinger ). Does this mean that he is also actively using his left arm to change the hand/hub path to evoke CF effect? He has also dipped his upper body in the backswing (left lateral flexion of the spine ?) and unsure if it dipped even more in the downswing, but does that mean he has to fold his left forearm up using his contracted bicep to stop hitting it fat? Especially if he is not allowing his lead shoulder joint to increase in height enough to allow a straight left arm through impact. Is that a fair assessment? Addendum: When I look at P5.5 (at about 1:07 -1:08) , that is where the left bicep contraction is very noticeable. I think the direction of the force across the grip by his left hand will be directed more towards his left shoulder. That will cause a 'moment of force' on the club's COG which will try and align with the 'tail' end of that force and increase clubhead speed (ie. that is basically the physics of the CF effect). Westwood is not using a pull force on the grip via his left shoulder joint (and straight left arm) with his upper body rotation but timing the pull with a contraction of his left bicep. I cannot see how his right hand can direct a force across the grip towards the lead shoulder to evoke a similar CF effect. DB (apologies for the edits - just couldn't figure out the mechanics vs forces/torques) A small number of pro golfers (like Lee Westwood, Jordan Spieth and Jamie Sadlowski) "chicken-wing" their left arm between P5.5 and P7 and I cannot really understand why it is happening. I strongly suspect that there is increased muscle tone of their left biceps during the P5.5 => P7 time period, but I do not think that it is deliberate. The fact that their left arm is less straight between P6.5 and impact means that they do not have to elevate their left shoulder as much to prevent hitting the ball fat (hitting the ground behind the ball). They may also be able to generate an additional amount of parametric acceleration of the clubhead due to the shortening of the hub path due to their "chicken-winging" action. I do not think that it necessarily changes the speed of release of PA#2 because the hand arc path is not significantly changed between P5.5 and P6.2 as a result of the small amount of left elbow bending happening during that time period. It could be really informative if a golf researcher placed pressure-sensors at PP#1 to determine the amount of push-pressure being exerted by the right palm against PP#1 during the entire downswing - and it could help us to better guesstimate whether Lee Westwood is a TGM swinger who simply "chicken-wings" his left arm (like Jamie Sadlowski) or whether he is a right arm swinger. By the way, a right arm swinger can generate different hand arc patterns using the right arm - see my video where I performed a right arm swinging action where I used a string (instead of the left arm) between my left shoulder socket and the grip. The hand arc path of a right arm swinger between P5.5 and P7 is determined by the i) position and speed of motion of the right shoulder socket (which is affected by the degree of secondary axis tilt and right lateral bend), ii) the speed of right arm adduction and internal rotation, and iii) the speed of right elbow straightening happening during that P5.5 => P7 time period and it is certainly possible to shape the hand arc path for different PA#2 release speeds using just the right arm. Jeff.
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Post by dubiousgolfer on May 1, 2019 18:38:20 GMT -5
Many thanks Dr Mann
DB
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