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Post by imperfectgolfer on Dec 28, 2019 14:50:34 GMT -5
See - http://instagr.am/p/BojuvyBFaaD
It is interesting note that Justin wants to get his hands down to waist level quickly at the start of the downswing while keeping his right shoulder back by limiting the speed of his upper torso's counterclockwise rotation. Note that it basically involves an active right arm adduction maneuver combined with a pitch elbow motion of the right elbow - note how supinated his right forearm is at P6 with his right palm under the clubshaft. Also, note how Justin claims that it can also increase his ability to maintain his degree of clubhead lag during the P4 => P6 time period. Finally, note how Justin is using a DH-hand release action through impact where he maintains an intact LAFW by controlling his rate of external rotation of the left humerus during the immediate impact zone between P7 and P7.2+ so that his clubshaft does not bypass his left arm (from an angular rotational perspective). Jeff.
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Post by utahgolfer on Dec 28, 2019 20:18:12 GMT -5
This looks like more of a compensatory swing thought for him. He mentions how his arms get too far away from his body during the early downswing as he turns his hips quickly. But, it looks like he is turning his right shoulder too horizontally (off-plane) which causes his left arm to move too horizontally, and his left hand swing arc to move over-the-top. It appears he only needs to do what you have taught, and turn his shoulders on-plane. Then, he wouldn't have to feel like his left arm needs to stay close to his body during the early downswing. imho
Jim
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Post by dubiousgolfer on Feb 11, 2020 10:25:26 GMT -5
Dr Mann
After reading this thread again , isn't JR risking getting his right elbow stuck behind his right hip if he tries to keep his right shoulder back?
Also if one keeps the right shoulder from rotating down plane after P4 PLUS actively delay (maybe in error) any straightening of the right arm (to maybe retain lag?) , what would be the implications on the diagonal abduction movement of the left arm?
DG
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Post by imperfectgolfer on Feb 11, 2020 10:36:16 GMT -5
Dr Mann After reading this thread again , isn't JR risking getting his right elbow stuck behind his right hip if he tries to keep his right shoulder back? Also if one keeps the right shoulder from rotating down plane after P4 PLUS actively delay (maybe in error) any straightening of the right arm , what would be the implications on the diagonal abduction movement of the left arm? DG No! Watch the video again and note that Justin Rose actively adducts his right arm towards his right shirt seam at the start of the downswing - even though his upper torso is not actively rotating counterclockwise. From that right elbow position along the right shirt seam, it is easy to complete the right elbow pitch motion without getting stuck. Note that his right shoulder socket moves slightly downwards during that same time period, which is acceptable because one is mainly trying to prevent the right shoulder socket from moving too much outwards, which predisposes to an OTT move. One should not be trying to prevent the downplane motion of the right shoulder that mainly happens in the mid-late downswing, but one should simply avoid any premature/early outward motion of the right shoulder socket between P4 and P5. Jeff.
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Post by dubiousgolfer on Feb 11, 2020 18:48:54 GMT -5
Many thanks Dr Mann DG
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Post by dubiousgolfer on Feb 16, 2020 8:08:20 GMT -5
Dr Mann
After revisiting JR's Instagram video , I am finding his logic a bit confusing.
He says that from P4 he tries to keep his upper torso more closed as he brings his arms down and once he's brought them down he can pivot more aggressively through the hitting area.
So doesn't that mean he is not using an active pivot to initially release PA#4 but using his shoulder girdle muscles to power his downswing to P5.5? Then he infers this enables him to pivot more actively from P5.5 through P7.
Is he actually doing what he thinks he's doing?
DG
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Post by imperfectgolfer on Feb 16, 2020 10:07:02 GMT -5
Dr Mann After revisiting JR's Instagram video , I am finding his logic a bit confusing. He says that from P4 he tries to keep his upper torso more closed as he brings his arms down and once he's brought them down he can pivot more aggressively through the hitting area. So doesn't that mean he is not using an active pivot to initially release PA#4 but using his shoulder girdle muscles to power his downswing to P5.5? Then he infers this enables him to pivot more actively from P5.5 through P7. Is he actually doing what he thinks he's doing? DG I think that he is mainly stating that he wants to delay his upper torso rotation so that he can slot the club between P4 and P5.5 without coming OTT. He is not inferring that he didn't start the downswing with a pelvic rotation, and he is really inferring that he doesn't want his upper torso to rotate first/prematurely. In "real life" he starts his kinematic sequence correctly with a pelvic rotation, and he also has enough torso-pelvic separation to prevent a premature outward rotation of his right shoulder. Jeff.
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Post by imperfectgolfer on Feb 16, 2020 10:08:18 GMT -5
Dr Mann After revisiting JR's Instagram video , I am finding his logic a bit confusing. He says that from P4 he tries to keep his upper torso more closed as he brings his arms down and once he's brought them down he can pivot more aggressively through the hitting area. So doesn't that mean he is not using an active pivot to initially release PA#4 but using his shoulder girdle muscles to power his downswing to P5.5? Then he infers this enables him to pivot more actively from P5.5 through P7. Is he actually doing what he thinks he's doing? DG I think that he is mainly stating that he wants to delay his upper torso rotation so that he can slot the club between P4 and P5.5 without coming OTT. He is not inferring that he doesn't start the downswing with a pelvic rotation, and he is really inferring that he doesn't want his upper torso to rotate first/prematurely. In his "real life" golf swing he starts his kinematic sequence correctly with a pelvic rotation, and he also has enough torso-pelvic separation to prevent a premature outward rotation of his right shoulder. Note that he has nearly completed his hip-squaring phase by P5 (image 2). Note that he has delayed his upper torso rotation while simultaneously adducting his right arm towards the right side of his upper torso. Jeff.
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Post by dubiousgolfer on Feb 16, 2020 11:17:02 GMT -5
Many thanks Dr Mann
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Post by syllogist on Feb 16, 2020 12:01:45 GMT -5
Dr. Mann,
Interestingly, Rose's rotational position of his torso in the still photo shown in the first post of this thread is nowhere near that shown in the third still photo of your last post. Apparently, his "feeling" is that his rotational speed should be at the bottom of the swing so that, as he claims, his torso does not outrace his arms during the beginning of the downswing (or else, as he claims, clubface control is sacrificed).
Theory has it that he should have a more difficult time generating rotational speed if the arms are brought down while the body is largely closed. As they say, to each his own swing thought. And what that has to do with clubface control, I don't know.
S
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