Post by imperfectgolfer on Mar 21, 2011 11:17:13 GMT -5
Here are a few examples of Kelvin's strange/illogical cause-and-effect relationships that he arbitrarily imposes on the swings of golfers - taken from the shoulder part that Jeffy calls "fascinating".
Jeffy wrote-: "You should read Kelvin's articles from the past year or so. Since he is doing original research, he is regularly uncovering, and publishing, new information on spinal and shoulder movements in elite golf swings. His most recent article was fascinating:"
www.aroundhawaii.com/lifestyle/he....urn-part-3.html
1) From part 2.
This is Louis Oostuhuizen at the end-backswing position. Note that his left wrist is slightly bent and that causes the LAFW not to be perfectly intact.
Kelvin claims illogically that it leads to flipping.
Louis may have marginal flipping at impact, but it is not caused by a cupped left wrist at the end-backswing position.
2) From part 2.
Here is Ernie Els who sets his wrists early in the backswing.
Kelvin then states the following-: "But look at what it causes? Setting the wrists so early causes stretch shorten cycle firings in his forearms that cannot be stopped no matter how good you are."
Kelvin states that it causes an early release - due to forearm muscles stretch shortening cycle firings. This cause-and-effect postulation is hilarious! Ernie is a swinger, who releases PA#2 via a CF-release action combined with a straightening right elbow (which is due to a right triceps muscle contraction), and the forearm muscles play no active role in his club release action.
3) From part 3.
Here is JM Singh at impact.
He is unusual in the sense that his pelvis is not very open at impact, and the shoulders are nearly as open as much as the pelvis at impact.
Kelvin posits the following cause-and-effect relationship - : "Here’s Jeev Milkha Singh showing the shoulders catching up to the hips. Remember he had quite an open clubface at the top thus a lower body stall is necessary to allow time for the hands to flip/roll the clubface square."
That's pure nonsense! There is no causal connection between the degree of pelvic rotation by impact and the speed/efficacy of the release of PA#2 and PA#3.
4) From part 3.
Here is Lee Westwood at the end of the early downswing.
Kelvin wrote-: "Take a look at former #1 golfer in the world Lee Westwood. He looks great at this point. But some people believe (and maybe they’ve trained him) that the legs and hips have done their job by this point in the swing and that the transfer of energy should begin here."
First of all, the optimum kinetic sequence doesn't depend on the transfer of energy from the lower torso to the upper torso, and it doesn't occur at this time point. The pelvis transfers energy via the rotating spine to the upper torso from the very moment the pelvis starts rotating. The shoulders are already rotating at a very fast speed at this end-of-the-early downswing time point. Secondly, the pelvis does slow down after this time point in most skilled golfers swings, but it is not due to a conscious effort.
This graph shows the pelvis reaches maximum rotational velocity when the lead arm is parallel to the ground (end of the early backswing) and slows down in the mid-late downswing. Also, the rotational velocity of the shoulders (upper torso) already exceeds the speed of the pelvis rotation at this time point.
5) From part 3.
Kelvin wrote-: "The effect of a sudden braking of the lower body (or what I have called a stall or outright stopping of the body) is going to create a flip, a roll or a flip/roll release. It might create more clubhead speed at the end but you’ll also sacrifice accuracy. This part is not rocket science. If you want a stable, driving hand position through impact, the rotational movement of the body is an absolute requirement."
I think that Kelvin's cause-and-effect postulation between lower body slowing and flip-roll release is not true - if the left arm keeps on accelerating through the impact zone. In a good golfer's swing, PA#4 is released with enough force by the pivoting torso to prevent left hand slowing by impact - even though the lower and upper torso slow down prior to impact.
Here is a graph from a Rob Neal research paper showing that hand speed reaches maximum speed at impact - even though the torso has long since slowed down.
6) From part 3.
Kelvin shows this photo of YE Yang with slight flipping at impact.
He then states-: "Y.E Yang 2009 PGA Champion and Tiger beater is a tremendous competitor with a lot of athleticism. But I’ll bet he’s been trained to brake the left leg. --- Can you see the left foot trying to remain quiet or stop? Can you see the stall? Of course this transfers the energy and speed through to his hands. But does this represent the best one can do? The stall and the flip are like peanut butter and jelly. The peanut butter is legs/feet sticking to the ground and the jelly are what your hands turn into."
That's pure nonsense!
7) From part 3.
He has this photo of Sean Foley at impact.
Kelvin then states-: "Looks like Foley has a little flip and lower body stall in this swing. Just so you know, Foley’s biomechanical guru is Chris Welch (non-golfer) and he’s is a major proponent of the segment interaction theory/kinetic chain. Of course his “knowledge” is being passed on to Tiger."
That's nonsense! Sean isn't flipping in that photo and Sean Foley doesn't teach a pivot stall action.
8) From part 3.
He has an animated image of Alvaros Quiros - which I cannot link to this thread.
He writes-: "Side Note: If you watch his movements carefully the power comes from the spine and pelvis, not his legs or shoulders. He’s using a float/rotating left leg that facilitates more spine/hip rotation through impact. Suffice to say, it isn’t what Tiger is doing these days. Tiger is “gripping the ground with his toes” now."
That's ridiculous - the idea that a golfer must have a float/rotating left leg to ensure spine/hip rotation through impact. Even if it did faciltate pelvic rotation through impact, it would not increase swing power - because the pivot-induced release of PA#4 occurs much earlier in the downswing.
9) From part 3.
He has this photo of Rush Limbaugh.
Kelvin wrote-: "While we all can recognize that he’s standing up or extending his spine through impact, stalling his lower body and his shoulders have closed the gap on his hips, the key is that he has no lateral bend. The lack of lateral bend causes a disconnection between the upper and lower halves of the body thereby allowing the shoulders a chance to catch up to the hips."
It is true that Rush has lost his spinal bend inclination, but that doesn't cause a disconnection between the upper and lower halves of the body. In fact, the adoption of an erect posture increases the likelihood of the upper and lower body moving in closer unison.
10) From part 3.
He has this comparison photo of Rod Pampling and Sergio Garcia
Kelvin wrote-: "See the Rod Pampling’s vs. Sergio Garcia’s position? What’s the point of having a lot of lag if you cup the left wrist (extend) instead of bowing (flexion), add more left shoulder internal rotation on the downswing like Sergio? It will overly flatten the downswing plane and leave the hands/wrists/clubface in too open a position. From this point, it is hard for anyone, even for someone as talented as Sergio to square it without having to flip/roll it."
I think that Kelvin is clueless about the LAFW concept, and how an intact LAFW rotates into impact as a result of the release of PA#3.
11) From part 3.
He has this photo of Rory Sabbatini at impact.
Kelvin writes-: "Rory Sabbatini shows an extreme disconnection between the left arm and the chest at impact. This helps to stabilize the left shoulder/arm complex for impact. As you can see, he’s got the same left shoulder held in internal rotation while driving the bowed left wrist. No wonder he plays well in the wind.Thus, while many are interested in retaining connection or pressure point, it may serve to prematurely externally rotate the left shoulder along with the rib cage/spine rotation thereby destabilizing the shoulder/arm/wrist for impact."
That's pure nonsense! S&T golfers and Foley-golfers keep the left arm closely connected to their upper chest through impact, and they don't suffer from a "premature external rotation of the left humerus in the left shoulder joint" problem.
Jeff.
Jeffy wrote-: "You should read Kelvin's articles from the past year or so. Since he is doing original research, he is regularly uncovering, and publishing, new information on spinal and shoulder movements in elite golf swings. His most recent article was fascinating:"
www.aroundhawaii.com/lifestyle/he....urn-part-3.html
1) From part 2.
This is Louis Oostuhuizen at the end-backswing position. Note that his left wrist is slightly bent and that causes the LAFW not to be perfectly intact.
Kelvin claims illogically that it leads to flipping.
Louis may have marginal flipping at impact, but it is not caused by a cupped left wrist at the end-backswing position.
2) From part 2.
Here is Ernie Els who sets his wrists early in the backswing.
Kelvin then states the following-: "But look at what it causes? Setting the wrists so early causes stretch shorten cycle firings in his forearms that cannot be stopped no matter how good you are."
Kelvin states that it causes an early release - due to forearm muscles stretch shortening cycle firings. This cause-and-effect postulation is hilarious! Ernie is a swinger, who releases PA#2 via a CF-release action combined with a straightening right elbow (which is due to a right triceps muscle contraction), and the forearm muscles play no active role in his club release action.
3) From part 3.
Here is JM Singh at impact.
He is unusual in the sense that his pelvis is not very open at impact, and the shoulders are nearly as open as much as the pelvis at impact.
Kelvin posits the following cause-and-effect relationship - : "Here’s Jeev Milkha Singh showing the shoulders catching up to the hips. Remember he had quite an open clubface at the top thus a lower body stall is necessary to allow time for the hands to flip/roll the clubface square."
That's pure nonsense! There is no causal connection between the degree of pelvic rotation by impact and the speed/efficacy of the release of PA#2 and PA#3.
4) From part 3.
Here is Lee Westwood at the end of the early downswing.
Kelvin wrote-: "Take a look at former #1 golfer in the world Lee Westwood. He looks great at this point. But some people believe (and maybe they’ve trained him) that the legs and hips have done their job by this point in the swing and that the transfer of energy should begin here."
First of all, the optimum kinetic sequence doesn't depend on the transfer of energy from the lower torso to the upper torso, and it doesn't occur at this time point. The pelvis transfers energy via the rotating spine to the upper torso from the very moment the pelvis starts rotating. The shoulders are already rotating at a very fast speed at this end-of-the-early downswing time point. Secondly, the pelvis does slow down after this time point in most skilled golfers swings, but it is not due to a conscious effort.
This graph shows the pelvis reaches maximum rotational velocity when the lead arm is parallel to the ground (end of the early backswing) and slows down in the mid-late downswing. Also, the rotational velocity of the shoulders (upper torso) already exceeds the speed of the pelvis rotation at this time point.
5) From part 3.
Kelvin wrote-: "The effect of a sudden braking of the lower body (or what I have called a stall or outright stopping of the body) is going to create a flip, a roll or a flip/roll release. It might create more clubhead speed at the end but you’ll also sacrifice accuracy. This part is not rocket science. If you want a stable, driving hand position through impact, the rotational movement of the body is an absolute requirement."
I think that Kelvin's cause-and-effect postulation between lower body slowing and flip-roll release is not true - if the left arm keeps on accelerating through the impact zone. In a good golfer's swing, PA#4 is released with enough force by the pivoting torso to prevent left hand slowing by impact - even though the lower and upper torso slow down prior to impact.
Here is a graph from a Rob Neal research paper showing that hand speed reaches maximum speed at impact - even though the torso has long since slowed down.
6) From part 3.
Kelvin shows this photo of YE Yang with slight flipping at impact.
He then states-: "Y.E Yang 2009 PGA Champion and Tiger beater is a tremendous competitor with a lot of athleticism. But I’ll bet he’s been trained to brake the left leg. --- Can you see the left foot trying to remain quiet or stop? Can you see the stall? Of course this transfers the energy and speed through to his hands. But does this represent the best one can do? The stall and the flip are like peanut butter and jelly. The peanut butter is legs/feet sticking to the ground and the jelly are what your hands turn into."
That's pure nonsense!
7) From part 3.
He has this photo of Sean Foley at impact.
Kelvin then states-: "Looks like Foley has a little flip and lower body stall in this swing. Just so you know, Foley’s biomechanical guru is Chris Welch (non-golfer) and he’s is a major proponent of the segment interaction theory/kinetic chain. Of course his “knowledge” is being passed on to Tiger."
That's nonsense! Sean isn't flipping in that photo and Sean Foley doesn't teach a pivot stall action.
8) From part 3.
He has an animated image of Alvaros Quiros - which I cannot link to this thread.
He writes-: "Side Note: If you watch his movements carefully the power comes from the spine and pelvis, not his legs or shoulders. He’s using a float/rotating left leg that facilitates more spine/hip rotation through impact. Suffice to say, it isn’t what Tiger is doing these days. Tiger is “gripping the ground with his toes” now."
That's ridiculous - the idea that a golfer must have a float/rotating left leg to ensure spine/hip rotation through impact. Even if it did faciltate pelvic rotation through impact, it would not increase swing power - because the pivot-induced release of PA#4 occurs much earlier in the downswing.
9) From part 3.
He has this photo of Rush Limbaugh.
Kelvin wrote-: "While we all can recognize that he’s standing up or extending his spine through impact, stalling his lower body and his shoulders have closed the gap on his hips, the key is that he has no lateral bend. The lack of lateral bend causes a disconnection between the upper and lower halves of the body thereby allowing the shoulders a chance to catch up to the hips."
It is true that Rush has lost his spinal bend inclination, but that doesn't cause a disconnection between the upper and lower halves of the body. In fact, the adoption of an erect posture increases the likelihood of the upper and lower body moving in closer unison.
10) From part 3.
He has this comparison photo of Rod Pampling and Sergio Garcia
Kelvin wrote-: "See the Rod Pampling’s vs. Sergio Garcia’s position? What’s the point of having a lot of lag if you cup the left wrist (extend) instead of bowing (flexion), add more left shoulder internal rotation on the downswing like Sergio? It will overly flatten the downswing plane and leave the hands/wrists/clubface in too open a position. From this point, it is hard for anyone, even for someone as talented as Sergio to square it without having to flip/roll it."
I think that Kelvin is clueless about the LAFW concept, and how an intact LAFW rotates into impact as a result of the release of PA#3.
11) From part 3.
He has this photo of Rory Sabbatini at impact.
Kelvin writes-: "Rory Sabbatini shows an extreme disconnection between the left arm and the chest at impact. This helps to stabilize the left shoulder/arm complex for impact. As you can see, he’s got the same left shoulder held in internal rotation while driving the bowed left wrist. No wonder he plays well in the wind.Thus, while many are interested in retaining connection or pressure point, it may serve to prematurely externally rotate the left shoulder along with the rib cage/spine rotation thereby destabilizing the shoulder/arm/wrist for impact."
That's pure nonsense! S&T golfers and Foley-golfers keep the left arm closely connected to their upper chest through impact, and they don't suffer from a "premature external rotation of the left humerus in the left shoulder joint" problem.
Jeff.