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Post by imperfectgolfer on Apr 13, 2011 21:38:16 GMT -5
Consider this BM-thread. www.brianmanzella.com/golfing-discussions/15219-reasonable.htmlConsider this comment by Kevin Shields-: "Ever since my days of obsessing over everything Faldo said or wrote, nothing has changed my opinion that the left arm can be as big a deterrent to a good swing as anything. Its totally in the way and needs to decel and fold away for the sweetspot/face/head to get on top of the ball and past." How can the left arm be a deterrent to a good swing? How can it be in the way? What does he mean when he states that the left arm has to "decel and fold away for the sweetspot/face/head to get on top of the ball and past"?
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Post by natep on Apr 13, 2011 22:21:18 GMT -5
I have no idea.
The answer probably lies with Faldo.
I think I recall Faldo mentioning in his book that the left arm folds on the followthrough symmetrically with how the right arm folds on the backswing.
Personally, I'm left handed and have never experienced the feeling that my left arm was in the way. But I could see how someone might feel awkward with their lead arm being their non-dominant arm.
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Post by imperfectgolfer on Apr 13, 2011 22:30:51 GMT -5
Natep,
Your post has not shed any light on KS's comments. It is true that the left arm has to fold during the finish swivel action, which happens after the followthrough. However, KS is implying a pre-impact scenario - where the left arm has to get out of the way (? fold) so that the clubface can hit the ball. I have no idea what he is talking about!!!
Jeff.
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Post by natep on Apr 13, 2011 22:40:57 GMT -5
lol me neither!
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Post by gmbtempe on Apr 13, 2011 23:40:15 GMT -5
How can it fold before impact, he surely cannot mean that because while there could be a small bend like Westwood but with the outward pull how could you physically fold it?
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Post by gmbtempe on Apr 13, 2011 23:42:45 GMT -5
I asked him to clarify but not sure he will, were not on the best of terms right now.
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Post by candygram on Apr 14, 2011 9:02:54 GMT -5
Sounds like Leadbetter to me and I think it only applies to golfers that square with the arms and hands instead of body rotation.
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Post by imperfectgolfer on Apr 14, 2011 9:08:55 GMT -5
CG,
How can any golfer fold the left arm pre-impact in order to square the clubface?
What has your claim to with Leadbetter?
Jeff.
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Post by candygram on Apr 14, 2011 9:39:15 GMT -5
Jeff- Please, don't put words in my mouth (or anybody else's mouth)! Kevin did not say the folding occured pre-impact and neither did I. If he implied it, he was just being sloppy, I'm sure. He obviously knows that much about the golf swing! As I recall from friends who went to Leadbetter schools, he is big on the "L-to-L" drill which is a hands and arm release. You will recall that Faldo worked with Leadbetter for years. Hogan used this in the 30's, something you pointed out in another thread: left arm close to the chest at impact, left arm folded and shaft at right angles in the follow-through. Here is Hogan in 1947 with a much stronger impact position that requires stronger body rotation: left arm pulling away from the chest at impact; left arm still straight, hips fully rotated and shaft parallel to the ground in the follow-through. No Leadbetter "L-to-L" here.
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Post by imperfectgolfer on Apr 14, 2011 9:51:06 GMT -5
CG, That's an illogical argument. You are simply describing the folding that occurs during the finish swivel action. That folding action cannot be occurring pre-impact and KS does imply that "getting the left arm folded/out-of-the-way" is occurring pre-impact because he states "for the sweetspot/face/head to get on top of the ball and past." Not all golfers fold their left arm post-impact as occurs in the L-to-L drill (which uses a finish swivel action). Here is Jack Nicklaus using a followthrough/finish action without any left arm folding. It's optional whether a golfer wants to use a finish swivel action and it doesn't get the left arm out-of-the-way pre-impact. I also have no idea why any golfer would want to get the left arm out of the way. The left arm is part of the intact LAFW and the "correct" swing action is to swing an intact LAFW into impact, and through impact. Jeff.
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Post by candygram on Apr 14, 2011 10:00:32 GMT -5
I can't believe you are arguing about this. Kevin's quote is the left arm "needs to decel and fold away". He doesn't say when it needs to fold away; that is a fact, not an argument, and logic has nothing to do with it. You have arbitrarily decided that he is implying that the folding occurs pre-impact, which you are free to do, but it is totally "illogical" to conclude that. It would imply that Kevin is a moron and knows next to nothing about the golf swing. Why you would think that is beyond me.
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Post by imperfectgolfer on Apr 14, 2011 10:14:08 GMT -5
CG,
Your lack of rational logic in your assertions continues to amaze me.
Greg asked him-: "this is confusing, how does the left arm fold before impact as one "gets on top" of the ball?"
In that question, Greg asked about a pre-impact folding.
KS answered-: "Decel and go down the chest and into the body and then fold away".
That answer doesn't state what he means by the term "folding" and he doesn't state when it occurs. Most specifically it doesn't answer the dilemma of how "folding" plays any role in affecting how the "clubface/sweetspot/clubhead get on top of the ball", which is a pre-impact phenomenon.
His new answer is also confusing. Why should the left arm decelerate? What is meant by the phrase "go down the chest and into the body".
Finally, why does KS think that the "left arm is getting in the way". How can the left arm ever get in the way?
Jeff.
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Post by candygram on Apr 14, 2011 10:19:34 GMT -5
Oh, insults now? I must be winning!
Again, you have nothing concrete from Kevin's mouth (or fingers) that states the left arm folds pre-impact.
All the other things you "don't understand" sound to me like standard kinetic chain stuff, something I thought you were thoroughly familiar with.
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Post by candygram on Apr 14, 2011 10:30:06 GMT -5
I honestly don't care much at all what Kevin thinks about the golfswing, (and I don't know why you care so much) but I think the answer to this question of yours is obvious:
"Finally, why does KS think that the "left arm is getting in the way". How can the left arm ever get in the way?"
If you are trying to teach a hands and arms release, the left arm can definitely be thought to "get in the way" if it blocks.
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Post by imperfectgolfer on Apr 14, 2011 10:35:54 GMT -5
CG,
What do you mean by a hands and arms release? Are you talking about AJ Bonar's hand crossover release action?
Jeff.
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