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Post by imperfectgolfer on Dec 19, 2010 12:03:15 GMT -5
Here is my personal idea of a biomechanically natural swing.
Note how AS rotates her shoulders relatively horizontally in the backswing and downswing. There is no attempt to rotate her shoulders steeply like a S&T golfer.
Note that the left arm's swingplane is much steeper than her shoulder turn swingplane - which I think is biomechanically natural. It also allows her to achieve perfect impact conditions without having to have a steep downswing shoulder turn like a S&T golfer or like Paula Creamer.
Note that she starts her downswing with a pelvic shift rotation motion, but her pelvis naturally slows in the later downswing as her upper torso accelerates. Her pelvis moves slower through impact than her upper torso, and she has no "jumping up" action through impact - like Troy Matteson in this next swing video.
Jeff.
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Post by gmbtempe on Dec 19, 2010 12:34:40 GMT -5
Jeff, Since you started this thread here I will repose our questions from another thread.........why does she get underplane? Sometimes its very noticeable. Your comment was where is the evidence. I think these two photo's with great camera angles show she is below plane. White circles where different locations of the clubhead. Looks to me like she plays off the elbow plane yet the clubhead runs down the shaft plane, maybe even below it.
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Post by youngsiwalker on Dec 19, 2010 13:09:27 GMT -5
When she is playing a slight draw from a square stance ?
Then slightly over for a fade from same stance
Might be wrong.
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Post by imperfectgolfer on Dec 19, 2010 14:20:03 GMT -5
Greg, Here is my explanation for her underplane clubshaft motion. Note that she has a very steep left arm angle (relative to her shoulder turn) at her end-backswing - image 1. During her downswing, she is going to be pulling her hands downwards to shallow-out her clubshaft plane. That causes the club to fall-back slightly relative to her hands. Note that she has a GFLW in image 1 and 2, but her left wrist is slightly arched in image 3. The yellow dotted line is where her clubshaft would be if she maintained a GFLW and an intact LAFW. However, she has palmar flexed her left wrist slightly as the clubshaft has shallowed-out more than her FLW. This is even more pronounced in image 4 - where her clubshaft is slightly underplane. This underplane action may actually be mechanically advantageous - according to SMK. He believes that if the clubshaft is slightly underplane relative to the plane of the left arm/forearm, that it allows one to release PA#3 and square the clubface more easily - requiring less muscular wrist torque to roll the LAFW/clubshaft into impact. See - people.stfx.ca/smackenz/swingplane.htmlJeff.
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Post by wedgey on Dec 19, 2010 15:39:28 GMT -5
So it's okay to disrupt the lafw then, why would you want to do this, as it's not nescessary just keep it, i thought that was your position on this before, what changed your mind or have you?
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Post by imperfectgolfer on Dec 19, 2010 17:24:44 GMT -5
What has possibly changed my mind about allowing the LAFW to become slightly disrupted is the idea that a slight arching of the left wrist will cause the clubshaft to become slightly underplane relative to the left arm. That phenomenon will apparently decrease the amount of torque force needed to perform a release swivel action, and it may make it easier to square the clubface by impact. An arched LW at the delivery position may also allow a golfer to more easily acquire an anatomically FLW at impact.
Jeff.
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Post by youngsiwalker on Dec 19, 2010 19:40:28 GMT -5
Jeff
so on that same premise would you say that the left wrist in the LAFW in a swingers action could be manually uncocked ? Similair to your post regarding lynn blakes manually triggering CF throwout.
If i manually uncock the left wrist therefore disrupt the LAFW that would be ok ? And therefore in the follow through allow my left forearm to be disrupted again and continue rotating past neutral like hogan illsutrated in art form ?
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Post by natep on Dec 19, 2010 19:53:44 GMT -5
If by cocking and uncocking you mean radial flexion and ulnar deviation, then these actions do not disrupt the LAFW. Ulnar deviation would make the angle of the left arm and clubshaft obtuse, but the wedge would still exist.
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Post by youngsiwalker on Dec 19, 2010 20:51:08 GMT -5
Back to the homework, me thinks... tricky this stuff isnt it.
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Post by natep on Dec 19, 2010 20:54:51 GMT -5
Lol it can be......I was just answering the question for you.......In my opinion these TGM concepts have little value.
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Post by youngsiwalker on Dec 19, 2010 20:57:47 GMT -5
So with the left wrist cocked, whether it be bowed,cupped or flat the actual flying wedge is just relative to the forearm and the clubshaft ? The 90 degree angle between the two ? that is LAFW ?
I presumed if the left wrist was anything other than flat then it wouldnt have a 90 degree relationship anymore therefore in not being intact ?
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Post by natep on Dec 19, 2010 21:07:25 GMT -5
The lafw is just the in-line relationship of the left forearm and the shaft. Whether or not the angle is 90 degrees like at the top or 0 degrees like Moe Norman at address, that's the wedge.
Cupping and bowing the wrist disrupts the wedge because it ruins the in-line relationship of the shaft and left forearm.
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Post by youngsiwalker on Dec 19, 2010 21:29:18 GMT -5
so what i said about uncocking the left wrist in a downward & forward curve would be disrupting the flying wedge ?
Or maybe disrupting is the wrong word but altering the number of degrees in the rltshp between the two ?
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Post by natep on Dec 19, 2010 21:35:46 GMT -5
The degrees between the two doesnt matter, and they can change, from say 90 degrees to 100 degrees to 150 degrees and it doesnt matter, the lafw is still intact as long as the back of the left wrist is flat.
Now you're getting into "what" is a flat left wrist, anatomically flat wrist, geometrically flat wrist, etc. and how do they relate to the integrity of the lafw?
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Post by youngsiwalker on Dec 19, 2010 21:44:50 GMT -5
I appreciate you answering this by the way nate
So in a tgm swingers pattern also Jeff Manns perfect golf swing review it states that in the downswing and thru impact that left wrist uncocks passively and returns the forearm.humerous and clubface back to neutral where the back of the flat wrist would be facing the target.
It states that at this point horizontal hinging takes place and the foraem does not continue to rotate counterclockwise, but wouldnt that mean the toe would never rise up and close the clubface ?
Wouldnt that be like holding off the follow through ?
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