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Post by dubiousgolfer on Feb 6, 2020 20:29:36 GMT -5
Many thanks Dr Mann
DG
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Post by imperfectgolfer on Feb 7, 2020 12:50:35 GMT -5
Here again is this AMG-produced video. At the 9:00 - 9:30 minute time point of the video Mike Granato states that it is a "killer move" to actively adduct the right arm towards the right side of the right mid-upper torso between P4 and P5.5 and to actively drive the right elbow to a pitch location in front of the right hip area by P5.5/P6. Both MG and SW claim that this "killer move" is not seen in pro golfers. I previously demonstrated that their bold-highlighted claim is not true - by featuring the swings of Dustin Johnson, Sergio Garcia and Cameron Champ. Here is another example - featuring Tiger Woods. Here are capture images of his early-mid downswing action. Image 1 is at P4, image 2 is at P5 and image 3 is at P5.5. Image 1 shows that TW's right arm is abducted away from the right side of his torso at P4. Note how much TW has adducted his right arm towards the right side of his torso by P5 (image2) - an important visual clue is noting that the right elbow is well below his left arm at P5.
Note that he has actively adducted his right arm tightly against the right side of his mid-torso by P5.5 and his right elbow is in a pitch location in front of his right hip area.
How can the two AMG-instructors claim that this active right arm adduction maneuver is not seen in pro golfers? Unfortunately, we live in a golf instructional world where there are true "facts" that are disputed by uninformed golf instructors who simply conjure up their alternative universe of false "alternative facts"!
Jeff.
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Post by imperfectgolfer on Feb 7, 2020 13:26:23 GMT -5
More criticism of the AMG-instructors' rigid golf instructional opinions.
Consider yet again their golf instructional video.
At the 7:55 - 8:15 minute time point MG states that he has never seen a pro golfer who has a right arm bent >90 degrees at P4.
Again, this only demonstrates how little time those two AMG-instructors spend looking at a large variety of pro golf swings.
Here is Hideki Matsuyama's driver swing.
Stop the video at the 1:37 minute time point when he is at his P4 position - note that his right elbow is bent slightly >90 degrees, which is not surprising because he gets his left arm to the 12 o'clock position.
Then stop the video at the 1:41 minute time point when he is at the P5 position. Note how actively he adducted his right arm towards the right side of his torso and how his right elbow is well below the level of his horizontal left arm.
Jeff.
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Post by syllogist on Feb 8, 2020 8:20:35 GMT -5
Dr. Mann,
Regarding the guys' admonishment against the "killer move," or "jamming" the elbow into the side, I got the impression that they were talking about "narrowing" where the angle of the right arm bend would decrease subsequent to its formation (approx 90 degrees) at transition. In other words, there's no good reason to make that angle very acute. Did you get a different impression about what they were talking about?
Thanks. S
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Post by dubiousgolfer on Feb 8, 2020 10:02:38 GMT -5
Dr Mann
I've just been re-reading your critical review of Chamblee's book 'The Anatomy of Greatness'. Does your 1st comment supercede the 2nd?
You said in a previous post in this thread : "I can agree with your line-of-reasoning and I also intuitively expect that having a larger accumulator #3 angle during the release of PA#3 will produce a smoother and more manageable release of PA#3, which theoretically should make it easier to time the release of PA#3 in order to get a square clubface at impact"
But then I found this in your Chamblee critical review: "The advantage of a smaller accumulator #3 angle is directly related to the "fact" that there will be less clubhead motion in space along the path of the clubhead arc for every 1 degree of supinatory roll of the left forearm during the release of PA#3, which happens between P6.5 and impact. That makes it theoretically easier for a golfer to more controllably achieve a square clubface by impact, and it is probably a major factor (in conjunction with a zero/near-zero planar shift pattern) that is causally responsible for Moe Norman's legendary ball flight accuracy. "
DG
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Post by imperfectgolfer on Feb 8, 2020 10:32:26 GMT -5
Dr. Mann, Regarding the guys' admonishment against the "killer move," or "jamming" the elbow into the side, I got the impression that they were talking about "narrowing" where the angle of the right arm bend would decrease subsequent to its formation (approx 90 degrees) at transition. In other words, there's no good reason to make that angle very acute. Did you get a different impression about what they were talking about? Thanks. S I agree that they talk about going from wide => narrow as being disadvantageous and it should produce a more acute right elbow bend angle if one started out with a very wide right elbow bend angle. However, I don't believe that getting a more acute right bend angle between P4 and P5.5 would be disadvantageous if one starts off with a very wide right elbow bend angle. Why should it? Also, it is my general impression that most pro golfers do not significantly change their right elbow bend angle when they actively adduct their right arm during the early downswing because they are generally not starting off with a very wide angle at P4 (as recommended by the AMG instructors). Look at Tiger Woods' right elbow bend angle at P4 and note that it is not wide, and then note that he does not change his right elbow bend angle between P4 and P5. Jeff.
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Post by imperfectgolfer on Feb 8, 2020 10:55:22 GMT -5
Dr Mann I've just been re-reading your critical review of Chamblee's book 'The Anatomy of Greatness'. Does your 1st comment supercede the 2nd? You said in a previous post in this thread : "I can agree with your line-of-reasoning and I also intuitively expect that having a larger accumulator #3 angle during the release of PA#3 will produce a smoother and more manageable release of PA#3, which theoretically should make it easier to time the release of PA#3 in order to get a square clubface at impact"But then I found this in your Chamblee critical review: "The advantage of a smaller accumulator #3 angle is directly related to the "fact" that there will be less clubhead motion in space along the path of the clubhead arc for every 1 degree of supinatory roll of the left forearm during the release of PA#3, which happens between P6.5 and impact. That makes it theoretically easier for a golfer to more controllably achieve a square clubface by impact, and it is probably a major factor (in conjunction with a zero/near-zero planar shift pattern) that is causally responsible for Moe Norman's legendary ball flight accuracy. "DG Yes - I have changed my thinking on that issue. I was thinking of Moe Norman's swing at that time and I was wondering whether he was more in control of the clubface ROC during his PA#3 release action by having a smaller accumulator #3 angle between P6.7 and impact. A smaller accumulator #3 angle would decrease the MOI of the club with respect to the "force" needed to actively perform a counterclockwise roll over a shorter distance of clubhead travel and that line-of-reasoning may still be applicable if a golfer has extremely good control of his active left forearm supinatory roll motion during the P6.7 => P7 time period - and I can reasonably presume that Moe Norman had that high level of control. But, then I look at Phil Mickelson's PA#3 release action during his driver swing and it looks to be far less controlled and far more wild. That makes me think that it would be better to have a larger accumulator #3 angle (like Sergio Garcia) where there is more overlap between the release of PA#2 and PA#3 and where there is less roll motion per unit amount of clubhead travel along the clubhead arc. I am not rigid in my thinking on this issue (where I am merely conjecturing in the absence of solid scientific evidence) and I am willing to consider other opinions that different golf instructors/golfers may have with respect to this issue. Jeff.
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Post by dubiousgolfer on Feb 9, 2020 9:21:53 GMT -5
Many thanks Dr Mann
DG
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