|
Post by richie3jack on Feb 10, 2011 19:20:36 GMT -5
Richie -- Could you speak briefly about your distance gains, if any, from last May to present? About 30-40 yards with the driver and 1-2 clubs with the irons. Most clubs I'd say 1.5 longer. Some of the older, vintage irons which are shorter in shaft length and have weaker lofts. I hit my Titleist 690MB's easily the longest, about 20 yards further. The Mizuno TN-87's are about 12-15 yards longer. Both have 5-iron's with 38.0" length, that's standard for some OEM's, others standard is 37.75" long with the 5-iron. I'd say my rought estimate of my yardages *now* are: 3-wood: 245 yards 3-hybrid: 235 yards 3-iron: 220 yards 4-iron: 208 yards 5-iron: 195 yards 6-iron: 182 yards 7-iron: 170 yards 8-iron: 158 yards 9-iron: 145 yards PW: 132 yards SW (56*): 110 yards LW (60*): 92 yards My driver goes about 40-50 yards further. I went from a 9.5* Cleveland Hi-Bore XLS with a Fujikura Stiff Flex, high launch shafts to a Adams Speedline, 9.5*, Grafalloy Unix low launch shaft. I didn't get fit for the driver and I plan on doing so once my swing progresses to the point where I want it to be. Anyway, I hit it about 280-290 yards on average. When I catch one and get the right launch, I can hit it up to 315 yards. Probably a good example was when I first played #5 at Eastwood, which plays 430 yards...which playes slightly uphill, I would hit driver-5 iron or driver 6-iron. Now I hit driver-8 iron or 9-iron. And it's much cooler out now. 3JACK
|
|
|
Post by imperfectgolfer on Feb 10, 2011 19:23:19 GMT -5
3jack,
I cannot understand this point.
You wrote-: "As far as the centered pivot goes, it’s basically my same pivot action, I just feel like I’m keeping the left shoulder low in the backswing."
And then you wrote-: "The old swing the CoG’s never moved forward nearly enough in the downswing. Why? Because I moved them off the ball to much in the backswing."
The 2nd statement contradicts the first statement. How can the pivot action be the same - when you previously moved the upper COGs more off the ball?
You also wrote-: "So what would happen in the old swing is that since my CoG’s weren’t moving forward, I would just rotate. And I couldn’t get any ‘weight’ on my left leg so when my leg straightened, the hips wouldn’t open."
I don't think that getting weight on the front leg would be a problem if you were more centralised - using a rightwards-centralised backswing action swing style (like Stuart Appleby).
However, you are obviously free to choose a swing style ala Foley/MORAD. I simply favor the free-flowing biomechanical movements that characterised your previous rotary swing style, which remind me of Slicefixer's students.
Jeff.
|
|
|
Post by richie3jack on Feb 10, 2011 20:37:41 GMT -5
The pivot action is basically the same in that I would turn the shoulders 90* to the spine in the backswing. It's not 'unnatural' to me because all I'm doing is feeling like I'm keeping the left shoulder low which the actual motion feels the exact same, no unnatural turning or different turning of the body, but 'keep the left shoulder low' and that...for me...keeps me centered.
I'm just not sure what seems 'non-free flowing' about my current swing. Surely doesn't feel that way to me. the only time it hasn't felt free flowing had to do with the takeaway. In fact, I just got back from the range today, it was cool out and it was just me and some other guy and he came over to watch me hit balls commenting on how easy and effortless I was making it look. I've still got a lot of work to do, too, but it's getting there.
I think Slice has some students that really can swing the club well, but the guys I prefer to watch swing the club are Mike McNary, Mac O'Grady, John Dochety, John Erickson and George Hunt.
3JACK
|
|
|
Post by imperfectgolfer on Feb 10, 2011 23:39:24 GMT -5
3jack, You have stated that you move your COGs forward during the downswing. However, when I study your downswing action, I see your head/USC move backwards in response to your left-lateral pelvic motion. Image 1 shows your end-backswing - it is a clone of Mike Bennett's vertical/leftwards-centralised backswing action. I have placed blue lines alongside your head and red lines alongside your pelvis. Image 2 shows your mid-downswing. Your pelvis has moved left-laterally, but your head has remained stationary. Now your thoracic spine appears near-verticalised with minimal rightwards spinal tilt - because the lumbar spine has moved forwards while the head/USC has remained stationary. Image 3 shows impact. Now you have some more rightwards spinal tilt - but it is not due to further left-lateral motion of your pelvis, but it is due to the fact that your head/USC is falling back (presumably in reaction to your pelvic motion). In what sense do you believe that are moving your head/USC COG centers forward in the direction of the target during your downswing action? Jeff.
|
|
|
Post by richie3jack on Feb 11, 2011 0:23:26 GMT -5
I move them forward to start the downswing. Problem is that I tend to 'back up out of it.' In the May 2010 swing, there was much less, if any, CoG shift in the downswing until well after impact.
Like I said, it's still got a ways to go but there's marked improvement. I thrust my right arm much more as well, but still not enough. My shoulders are flatter in the downswing, close to 90* to the spine, but still not completely there.
The head will follow the steepness of the plane of the shoulders. In my case, my shoulders still turn too steep, so the head at the last second before impact goes backward. But it's much better than the May 2010 swing where the head hangs wayyy back....becasue the shoulders then were turning even steeper.
IIRC, SliceFixer prescribes that 80 to 90% of your weight should be on the left heel at impact. I think he's got the idea, tough to do though when for 25 years you've been told to 'get behind the ball.'
3JACK
|
|
|
Post by gmbtempe on Feb 11, 2011 0:35:52 GMT -5
I move them forward to start the downswing. Problem is that I tend to 'back up out of it.' In the May 2010 swing, there was much less, if any, CoG shift in the downswing until well after impact. Like I said, it's still got a ways to go but there's marked improvement. I thrust my right arm much more as well, but still not enough. My shoulders are flatter in the downswing, close to 90* to the spine, but still not completely there. The head will follow the steepness of the plane of the shoulders. In my case, my shoulders still turn too steep, so the head at the last second before impact goes backward. But it's much better than the May 2010 swing where the head hangs wayyy back....becasue the shoulders then were turning even steeper. IIRC, SliceFixer prescribes that 80 to 90% of your weight should be on the left heel at impact. I think he's got the idea, tough to do though when for 25 years you've been told to 'get behind the ball.' 3JACK Whats interesting about slice is wanting to setup with 60% on left foot. I was looking at Lynn Blakes swing today and his head was centered between his feet but his weight was clearly favoring the left leg/foot. I think we were really sold the wrong way with weight so much on the right leg at setup and to start the swing.
|
|
|
Post by imperfectgolfer on Feb 11, 2011 0:55:19 GMT -5
3jack, It is fascinating to see how different your swing is today compared to May 2010. In your old swing, you used the Brady Riggs style of backswing pivot action. You moved/rotated your pelvis well to the left during your backswing action, which causes your right thigh to move far away from that red line that represented the outer border of your right pelvis at address. The outer border of your left pelvis was already outside your left foot at your end-backswing position. From that end-backswing position, your head/USC had to fall back when you shift-rotated your pelvis during your downswing action. It is interesting to see how Stuart Appleby keeps his right thigh, and outer border of the right pelvis, on that white line during his backswing action. From his end-backswing position, he has a lot of space to move his pelvis in his downswing - note the space between the outer border of the left side of his pelvis and the left-sided white line. He can shift his pelvis into that space during the downswing while keeping his head stationary. At impact, the outer border of his left pelvis is still inside the outer border of his left foot. I personally like Stuart Appleby's swing action, but I realise that not everybody likes my personal preferences when it comes to the mechanics/biomechanics of the full golf swing. Jeff.
|
|
|
Post by gmbtempe on Feb 11, 2011 1:09:55 GMT -5
Reverse hips like I had, like Richie had, can help some people who slice the ball but for the better player its a recipe for being under plane.
obviously Appleby has a great swing, model swing, he really releases PA One and Four well so he gets the hands in a great position at P6.
|
|
|
Post by richie3jack on Feb 11, 2011 8:26:11 GMT -5
That's one of the things I'm probably most happy about, no more reverse hips. My hips now in the backswing are more in line with what Appleby does, even though there is a noticeable discrepancy.
I will say it's hard to compare driver swing to iron swing when it comes to the head moving in the downswing. I've seen guys like Grant Waite, whose head doesn't nearly move as far forward with the driver as it does when he's hitting an iron.
Admittedly, I think I may have filmed a driver swing 3-4 times in the past 4 months. My thinking has been to try and 'get it right' with the short irons first, then move to mid-irons, then long irons, the fairway woods, then the driver.
One thing that I've learned is if you want to make that 'sound' with the irons that sounds really great and gets people attention, you need to slow down the overtaking rate. This compresses the ball more and gets that distinct sound. Which is funny because growing up there was a great golfer from my hometown who hit it a mile and made that sound more consistently than anybody I've ever seen. Of course, he also generated a ton of clubhead speed, but he too played with a very strong grip. My guess is that grip slowed down the overtaking rate like my strong grip has and combine that with his ultra-fast swing speed, that's why he could hit the shots he did and have them make the sound they did.
3JACK
|
|
|
Post by aimsmithgolf on Feb 11, 2011 9:07:32 GMT -5
3Jack,
Couldn't the overtaking rate you mention be a result of your concentration on right arm thrusting and not the grip? I watched all your videos and it seems you have a great hold on the club but the downswing is still more controlled by the right arm. CF should have you easily averaging 300+ yards as big and strong as you appear to be.
And the posture and head position at impact? How tall are you?
Rand
|
|
|
Post by richie3jack on Feb 11, 2011 9:25:02 GMT -5
3Jack, Couldn't the overtaking rate you mention be a result of your concentration on right arm thrusting and not the grip? I watched all your videos and it seems you have a great hold on the club but the downswing is still more controlled by the right arm. CF should have you easily averaging 300+ yards as big and strong as you appear to be. Your posture also needs work. Why bend so much from the waist? How tall are you? Rand 1. I don't actively 'hold off' at all. That's all a function of the grip. If you grab a club with only your left hand and exagerrate the rotated grip so much so the side of your hand where your pinky is facing the target, you really can't have the clubhead overtake the hands. Zach Johnson is a good example of this. He works with Bender, who knows *some* MORAD (not nearly as much as he makes it seem) and has a very strong grip and people say he 'holds off.' And he has the slowest overtaking rate on Tour. Hell, his overtaking rate is slower than Mac O'Grady's, unless Zach's head is hanging back a lot that day. But the 'hold off' look is just a function of his grip. Also, I don't bend that much from the waist now. Back then I did because the swing theory was different. And I'm 6'4" tall. 3JACK
|
|
|
Post by imperfectgolfer on Feb 11, 2011 11:51:05 GMT -5
3jack, There is a great advantage to your new swing in the sense that you do not use PA#3 or a hinging action. Consider your late downswing and followthrough. You have a very strong (4+ knuckle) left hand grip and a strong right hand grip. That means that your left forearm is fully pronated at address, and you do not pronate your left forearm more during your backswing - note that your clubface is very closed to the clubhead arc at the end-backswing position. Image 1 - delivery position - the back of your left hand is parallel to the ball-target line. Image 2/3 late downswing to impact - the back of your left hand remains parallel to the ball-target line, which means that thee is no release swivel action (no release of PA#3) in the late downswing. Image 4 shows the early followthrough - the back of your left hand is still parallel to the ball-target line, which means that there is no clubface closure through impact, which is a great advantage. Image 5 shows a point later in the followthrough - note that your left forearm has supinated and now the FLW faces the target, and the right forearm pronates so that the right palm faces the target. This is a swivel phenomenon and not a hinging action. HK never described this phenomenon in his TGM book - because he always presumed that the FLW would face the target at impact. The great advantage of your arm/hand motion through the impact zone is that there is less clubface closing and less need to worry about timing related to the timing of the release of PA#3. I would very much like to see a DTL and up-line Casio-video of your swing so that I can study it further. I think that it may be a wonderful way for certain golfers to execute a golf swing, so that they can eliminate problems relating to the timing of clubface closure through the impact zone. Jeff.
|
|
|
Post by richie3jack on Feb 11, 2011 13:26:17 GMT -5
Probably the biggest thing I've been asked about by my readers is the closed clubface in the backswing. MOG prefers a face that is more closed than what is typically called 'square.' I think it works with relation to the rotated grip I now use. If I have that grip and a 'square' face in the backswing , I think because I've slowed down the rate of closure and the overtaking rates, that 'square' face would be open at impact. However, I think I overdo it. When I look at guys like McNary and MOG, they have a face that is closed in the backswing, but not nearly as much as mine is. Which is okay for now. It's really not been an issue and I have 'bigger fish to fry' at this moment and we'll work on it when those bigger things are taken care of.
I have a decent video of me DTL, but it's still now where I want it to be. Mainly it's the right arm thrust issue. I'm just a little off there as I still have an issue with stopping the thrust as I go from p4-p6.
Hopefully in the next month I'll get that better and feel comfortable with posting up a DTL shot.
3JACK
|
|