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Post by dubiousgolfer on Jul 18, 2021 21:36:50 GMT -5
That dual forearm supination seen in the avatar that is happening in the mid-dowswing only happens in pro golfers who use an "early lead forearm supination + lead wrist bowing" maneuver eg. Gary Woodland.
Note that GW is supinating both forearms in image 4.
Pro golfers who use an intact LFFW/GFLW technique only start to supinate their lead forearm after P6 and dual forearm supination exists between P6 => P6.7+ if the trail forearm becomes neutral after P6.7 in pro golfers who adopt an "on-top" or "side-cover" trail hand grip, and dual forearm supination exists all the way between P6 => P7 if the trail grip is "side-on" or "under".
Jeff. Dr Mann When I look at this wrist graph of GW doesn't it demonstrate that he is doing lead wrist circumduction rather than just lead wrist bowing? The green graph is showing increasing flexion from around P5.5- P6 while there is simultaneous ulnar deviation (red graph). Will that combined biomechanical action of wrist flexion and ulnar deviation roll the wrist counterclockwise and close the clubface? DG
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Post by imperfectgolfer on Jul 18, 2021 21:58:26 GMT -5
That dual forearm supination seen in the avatar that is happening in the mid-dowswing only happens in pro golfers who use an "early lead forearm supination + lead wrist bowing" maneuver eg. Gary Woodland. Note that GW is supinating both forearms in image 4. Pro golfers who use an intact LFFW/GFLW technique only start to supinate their lead forearm after P6 and dual forearm supination exists between P6 => P6.7+ if the trail forearm becomes neutral after P6.7 in pro golfers who adopt an "on-top" or "side-cover" trail hand grip, and dual forearm supination exists all the way between P6 => P7 if the trail grip is "side-on" or "under".
Jeff. Dr Mann When I look at this wrist graph of GW doesn't it demonstrate that he is doing lead wrist circumduction rather than just lead wrist bowing? The green graph is showing increasing flexion from around P5.5- P6 while there is simultaneous ulnar deviation (red graph). Will that combined biomechanical action of wrist flexion and ulnar deviation roll the wrist counterclockwise and close the clubface? DG DG, It's complicated because lead wrist flexion angles the clubshaft backwards away from the target when the lead wrist is ulnar-deviated, and that will open the clubface relative to the ball-target line even though it may produce a small degree of clubface closing due to a counterclockwise circumductory roll motion if the roll motion is in the direction of radial deviation. I strongly suspect that the clubshaft angulation effect is the dominant effect. Jeff.
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Post by dubiousgolfer on Jul 19, 2021 6:53:41 GMT -5
Dr Mann
Yes , I understand but just wondering whether GW is using a degree of 'Twistaway' with some "early lead forearm supination + lead wrist bowing"?
Also I've noticed that GW is extending (while still in flexion) while increasing ulnar deviation approaching impact and wondering what biomechanical effect that has on the left palm (I think its a circumduction clockwise rotation). Maybe this is the dissipation of any 'Twistaway' as the dynamic weight of the club becomes very large approaching impact.
If this is dissipation of 'Twistaway' it also seems to be happening through impact for a short while which means a clockwise rotation tendency happening at the same time as lead forearm supination (counterclockwise rotation).
It is very complicated!
DG
PS. Isn't it biomechanically difficult to supinate the lead forearm counterclockwise while having a wrist circumduction that moves the palm clockwise? The blue graph is contradicting any perceived difficulty by showing increasing supination through impact.
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Post by imperfectgolfer on Jul 19, 2021 7:14:33 GMT -5
Dr Mann Yes , I understand but just wondering whether GW is using a degree of 'Twistaway' with some "early lead forearm supination + lead wrist bowing"? Also I've noticed that GW is extending (while still in flexion) while increasing ulnar deviation approaching impact and wondering what biomechanical effect that has on the left palm (I think its a clockwise rotation). Maybe this is the dissipation of any 'Twistaway' as the dynamic weight of the club becomes very large approaching impact. If this is dissipation of 'Twistaway' it also seems to be happening through impact for a short while which means a clockwise rotation tendency happening at the same time as lead forearm supination (counterclockwise rotation). It is very complicated! DG I think that it is very likely that GW is using an element of twistaway when he performs the "early lead forearm supination + lead wrist flexion" maneuver in his mid-downswing, but its clubface closing effect is going to dissipate when the lead forearm's flexor digitorum profundus muscles get stretched in the later downswing. The degree of lead wrist extension happening through impact is very small and it probably has no effect on the clubface via the mechanism of lead wrist circumduction. Jeff.
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Post by dubiousgolfer on Jul 19, 2021 7:18:24 GMT -5
Many thanks Dr Mann - I wish they would contemplate using higher frequency 3D measurement systems to help us understand better what is happening (very frustrating).
DG
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Post by imperfectgolfer on Jul 24, 2021 9:30:10 GMT -5
This is the 5th post in my ongoing series of posts where I will be analysing some of the opinions expressed by Terry Rowles and Mike Adams during their 12 webinar video sessions. In this post I will be focusing my attention on the implications of Terry Rowles/Mike Adams' golf instructional philosophy where they focus their attention on the trail hand pushing the club during the downswing. One of the most important screening tests that TR/MA perform is the "trail elbow folding" test, which determines whether the golfer should adopt an "on-top", "side-on" or "under" trail hand grip. If a golfer tests positive for an "on-top" trail hand grip pattern, then Mike Adams rigidly asserts that it will affect his hinging action during the backswing, his trail arm's motional pattern during the P4 => P6 time period, his trail hand delivery action during the late downswing and early followthrough and also his pattern of ground reaction force development. In my last post (post number 4), I analysed the implications of the trail hand pushing the club handle during the downswing in terms of the measured forces that could potentially be applied by the trail hand against the aft side of the club handle during the downswing action, and I concluded that it makes no sense to teach golfers, who aspire to perform a golf swing action like a pro golfer, to apply a positive push-force against the aft side of the club handle during the later downswing and early followthrough. I believe that most pro golfers actually have a negative hand couple torque scenario during their later downswing between P6 => P7. In this post, I am going to analyse what effect the adoption of an "on-top" trail hand grip will have on the i) backswing action, ii) the trail arm/hand delivery methodology during the early-mid downswing, iii) the trail hand delivery action in the late downswing between P6 => P7, and iv) the trail hand action during the early followthrough. I can generally agree with Mike/Terry Rowles that if a pro golfer adopts an "on-top" trail hand grip that it will likely affect the way that the pro golfer performs his backswing takeaway action. He is far less likely to use a trail forearm takeaway action (frequently called a RFT = Right Forearm Takeaway) where the right elbow bends early, and where the lead wrist upcocks to a 90 degree early while the lead forearm pronates early so that the clubshaft can get to lie parallel to the swingplane by P2.5. By contrast, he is far more likely to use an one-piece takeaway - as seen in the capture images below. Colin Montgomerie's backswing action. Note Colin Mongomerie's mid-backswing position (image 2) - note that the back of his lead hand, and therefore clubface, is facing the ground because he is not rolling his lead forearm clockwise in a pronatory direction so that the back of his lead hand, and watchface area of his lead forearm, will become parallel to the swingplane by P2.5. Instead, he is temporarily avoiding any clockwise rotation of his lead forearm. Note that he is not bending his trail arm early, and he is avoiding any clockwise rotation of his trail humerus in the direction of external humeral rotation - and that causes his trail arm to have a "flying trail elbow" alignment at his P4 position (image 4) where his trail elbow is further away from the ball-target line than his trail hand.
Now, let's consider what MA/TR state will happen during the early-mid downswing between P4 => P6 if a golfer has adopted an "on-top" trail hand grip. Terry Rowles has stated that the golfer will be using a punch elbow motion between P4 => P6 that will cause the trail elbow to be higher than the lead elbow during the early-mid downswing, and that it will get the trail elbow to be located just outside the trail hip area (= rear-linkage) by P6. At that P6 position, the trail palm will be partially on-top of the club handle and be partially facing the ground.Then, during the P6 => P7 time period the trail arm will straighten and they claim that the trail forearm will start to pronate as the trail arm reaches its end-stage of extension, which will cause the cause the trail palm to rotate counterclockwise and roll over the club handle through impact.
I will now feature two pro golfers - Patrick Reed and Marc Leishman - who manifest that trail arm motional pattern.
Capture images of Patrick Reed's early-mid downswing action - as viewed from DTL. Note that his trail hand is closer to the ball-target line than his trail elbow at his P4 position, which is expected in a golfer who uses an "on-top" trail hand grip.
I have drawn blue lines at the level of his two elbows and you can see that they are at the same level at P4. Note that Patrick Reed shallows his clubshaft down to the elbow plane by P5.5 and there is no evidence that the trail elbow remains higher than the lead elbow during the P4 => P5.5 time period. In fact, his trail elbow is significantly below his lead elbow at his P5.5 position.
Note that his trail elbow is outside his trail shirt seam at P5.5 and that his trail palm is partially facing the ground at his P5.5 position.
Capture images of Patrick Reed's early-mid downswing action - as viewed from face-on. Image 1 is his P4 position, image 2 is at his P5 position and image 3 is at his P6 position.
Note that his trail elbow is level with his lead elbow at his P5 position, which indicates that he is not aggressively adducting his trail upper arm while simultaneously using a pitch elbow motion.
Note that his trail elbow is in a rear-linkage position at his P6 position, and that his lead hand is closer to the target than his trail elbow, which is expected if a golfer uses a punch elbow motion of his trail arm during his early-mid downswing action that gets the trail elbow to end up in a rear-linkage position at P6.
Now, consider what happens between P6 => P7 in Patrick Reed's golf swing action. Image 1 is at his P6 position, image 2 is at his P6.5 position and image 3 is at his P7 position.
I have drawn a blue line straight-in-line with his trail antecubital fossa and a red line over his lower trail radial bone in his lower trail forearm. If the red line is rotated clockwise realtive to the blue line, then that means that his trail forearm is supinated. Note that his trail forearm remains supinated during his entire P6 => P7 time period and it never becomes frankly pronated before impact. Note that his trail arm is still partially bent at impact and it is not yet fully extended.
Note that the back of his lead hand rotates a lot counterclockwise between P6.5 => P7 secondary to a lead forearm supinatory motion and that allows him to square his clubface by impact (and this phenomenon is called the release of PA#3 in TGM terminology). Note that his trail palm has rotated more counterclockwise between P6.5 => P7 and that is partially due to the fact that his degree of trail forearm supination is decreasing between P6.5 => P7 and partially due to a trail wrist straightening action where the trail wrist does not simultaneously undergo a clockwise trail wrist circumductory roll motion.
Now, consider what happens through impact into the early followthrough (from P7 => P7.4). Image 1 is at P6.5, image 2 is at impact and image 3 is at P7.4.
Note that he is performing a PA#3 release action between P6.5 => P7 in order to square his clubface by impact. Note that his trail arm remains partially bent and his trail forearm remains supinated during his PA#3 release time period and he is not "running-out-of-trail arm" pre-impact..
Note how Patrick Reed fully straightens his trail arm through impact and that causes his trail forearm to pronate and that causes his trail palm to roll more counterclockwise over the top of his club handle. Note that his clubshaft bypasses his lead arm between P7 => P7.4 and this represents a non-DH hand release action. I believe that the most likely cause of his non-DH hand release action (where the clubshaft bypasses the lead arm from an angular rotational perspective) is that i) he is slowing the forward (targetwards) motion of his lead arm while ii) he is fully straightening his trail arm and trail wrist.
Another pro golfer, who also uses an "on-top" trail hand grip, and who swings in a very similar manner to Patrick Reed is Marc Leishman.
Capture images of Marc Leishman's early-mid downswing. Image 1 is at P4. Note that his trail hand is closer to the ball-target line than his trail elbow.
Image 2 is at P5. Note that his trail elbow is not visible below the level of his lead elbow so he is not actively adducting his trail upper arm using a pitch elbow motion.
Image 3 is at P6. Note that his trail elbow is outside his trail hip area in a rear-linkage position. Note that his trail palm partially faces the ground.
Capture images of Marc Leishman's late downswing action. Image 1 is at his P5.5 position, image 2 is at his P6.2 position, image 3 is at his P6.7 position and image 4 is just passed his P7 position.
Note that I have drawn a blue line straight-in-line with the middle of his trail antecubital fossa and a short red line over his lower radial bone in his lower trail forearm. If the red line is rotated clockwise relative to the blue line, then that means that his trail forearm is supinated. Note that his trail forearm is supinated between P5.5 => P6.7.
Note that his lead hand is facing the ball-target line at P6.7 and then facing the target at P7 secondary to his PA#3 release action (which is biomechanically secondary to a lead forearm supinatory motion). His PA#3 release action happens later than usual in his late downswing because he has a small accumulator #3 angle at impact. Note that his trail forearm becomes less supinated between P6.7 => P7 and his trail wrist straightens without rolling clockwise due to a clockwise trail wrist circumductory roll motion, and that allows his trail palm to rotate counterclockwise by an appropriate amount during the time period of his PA#3 release action.
Note that his trail arm is still slightly bent at impact and his trail wrist is still slightly extended, which means that he is not manifesting a "running-out-of-trail arm" scenario that can predispose to excessive trail forearm pronation that can secondarily cause the trail palm to roll over the top of the club handle, thereby producing an undesirable roller-release subtype of non-DH hand release action through impact.
Both Patrick Reed and Marc Leishman manifest the "look" of "covering the ball with the trail chest" that is seen in golfers who are swinging slightly out-to-in through impact.
Here are DTL capture images of Marc Leishman's golf swing action where it can be readily seen that his clubhead path is slightly out-to-in during the late downswing and through impact. Image 1 is at his P4 position, image 2 is at his P5.5 position, image 3 is at his P6 position and image 4 is at his P6.7 position.
Marc Leishman uses a punch elbow motion of his trail arm during his P4 => P6 time period and his trail elbow ends up in a rear-linkage position at P6 with his trail palm partially facing the ground. Note that he has an open foot stance and that when he reaches the P6 position, his clubshaft is angled slightly outwards in the direction of the ball-target line and that will predipose to an out-to-in clubhead path between P6 => P7, that is clearly apparent in image 4.
Note that he has a very small accumulator #3 angle at P6.7 (image 4), and that the back of his lead hand is still partially facing the ball-target line, thereby leading to a delayed PA#3 release action that happens between P6.7 => P7.
Note that both Patrick Reed and Marc Leishman have their pelvis and upper torso (shoulders) relatively square to the ball-target at impact, and they both manifest very little rotary motion of their pelvis and upper torso through impact.
Both Patrick Reed and Marc Leishman manifest the body and arm motions that Mike Adams/Terry Rowles infer are prototypically characteristic of a pro golfer who uses an "on-top" trail hand grip. However, I do not believe that adopting an "on-top" trail hand grip causes those body/arm motions because there are many pro golfers, who also use an "on-top" trail hand grip, but who manifest a totally different pattern of body/arm motions during the downswing and early followthrough.
Consider the body/arm motions of a pro golfer - Patrick Rodgers- who uses an "on-top" trail hand grip. Image 1 is at his P4 position.
Image 2 is at his P5 position. Note that his trail elbow is visible well below the level of his lead elbow and that is a sign that he is using an active trail upper arm adduction maneuver.
Image 3 is at P6 position. He is using a pitch elbow motion of his trail arm when he actively adducts his trail upper arm between P4 => P6 that gets his trail elbow to a center-linkage position in front of his trail hip area by P6. Note that he also allows his trail elbow to slide forwards in a targetwards direction across the front of his trail hip area between P6 => P7+.
I have drawn a blue line straight-in-line with his trail antecubital fossa and a red line over his lower radial bone in his lower trail forearm. If the red line is rotated clockwise relative to the blue line, then that means that his trail forearm is supinated. Note that his trail forearm remains supinated between P6 (image 3) and impact (image 5) even though he is using a PA#3 release action (which is primarily due to lead forearm supination) to rotate his lead hand counterclockwise between P6.5 (image 4) and impact (image 5).
Now, consider his hand release action through impact. Image 1 is at P6.5, image 2 is at P7 and image 3 is at P7.5.
Note that he is using a DH-hand release action between P7 => P7.5 and that the clubshaft does not bypass his lead arm (from an angular rotational perspective). The use of a DH-hand release action indicates that he is using a lead arm swinging action where he maintains the forward motional velocity of his lead arm during his early followthrough so that it perfectly matches the forward angular velocity of his club (from an angular rotational perspective). Note that he gets his trail shoulder moving well downplane in a targetwards direction and that allows him to maintain a slightly bent trail arm and a slightly bent trail wrist all the way to P7.5, thereby avoiding a "running-out-of-trail arm" scenario (as seen in Patrick Reed's early followthrough). To make that feat biomechanically feasible, note how he opens his pelvis and upper torso through impact - which gives him a very different "look" than Patrick Reed and Marc Leishman through impact.
Here is a you-tube video of a skilled student-golfer of Kelvin Miyahira, who uses an "on-top" trail hand grip, but who also uses a i) lead arm swinging action combined with ii) an intact LFFW/GFLW swing technique and a iii) DH-hand release action through impact to P7.5.
Here are capture images of his P6 => P7.5 time period.
Image 1 is at P6, image 2 is at P6.5, image 3 is at impact, amd image 4 is at P7.5.
I have drawn a green line along his proximal clubshaft and a red line over his lower radial bone in his lower lead forearm. Note that two lines are perfectly straight-in-line when evaluated from an angular rotational perspective, which means that he maintains an intact LFFW/GFLW alignment all the way between P6 => P7.5.
Note that he is using a DH-hand release action between P7 => P7.5 and that the clubshaft does not bypass his lead arm from an angular rotational perspective.
Note that he maintains a slightly bent trail arm and and a slightly bent trail wrist all the way to P7.5, and that is only biomechanically possible because he avoids a "running-out-of-trail arm" scenario by getting his trail shoulder to move far enough downplane in a targetwards direction between P6 => P7.5. What makes that fact more biomechanically feasible is the fact that he gets his pelvis and upper torso very open at impact, and also through impact.
Note that his trail hand is an "on-top" position at impact, but it never rolls more over the top of his club handle - as seen in Patrick Reed's early followthrough when he "runs-out-of-trail arm" - between P7 => P7.5. In other words, his trail palm maintains its same alignment relationship relative to the back of his intact LFFW/LFFW all the way between P6 => P7.5 while his intact LFFW is rotating ~150 degrees in a counterclockwise direction between the P6 position and the P7.5 position. That means that his trail palm is accomodating itself to the motion of the intact LFFW/GFLW - and not the other way around.
I personally favor the use of a "lead arm swinging technique that is combined with an intact LFFW/GFLW swing technique and a DH-hand release action" - and those capture images demonstrate that it is easily possible to use that technique with an "on-top" trail hand grip. Terry Rowles/Mike Adams never mention that it is optional to use the body/arm motions seen in this skilled golfer's golf swing action if a golfer decides to use an "on-top" trail hand grip. I personally think that they are far too rigidly doctrinaire in their golf instructional approach, and they imply that if a golfer tests positive for an "on-top" trail hand grip when evaluated by their "trail elbow folding" screening test, that the golfer should use the body/arm motions and release pattern manifested by Patrick Reed or Marc Leishman. However, there is no rational reason why they should not have the optional choice to use the alternative body/arm motions manifested by a pro golfer who uses the combination of a "pivot-driven lead arm swinging technique + intact LFFW/GFLW technique + DH-hand release action" if the golfer has the flexibility, athleticism and mental inclination to use that combination technique.
Here are capture images of Charlie Hoffmann, who uses an "on-top" trail hand grip, performing a DH-hand release action where his followthrough is not inside-left, but slightly in-to-out (towards the right-of-the-target) because he is generating a push-draw ball flight pattern. Note that he is performing a DH-hand release action, where the clubshaft does not bypass his lead arm (from an angular rotational perspective) all the way to P7.7 (image 5).
Note how open his pelvis and upper torso are aligned through impact and note that he does not "run-out-of-trail arm" because he gets his trail shoulder far enough downplane to be able to maintain a slightly bent trail arm and slightly bent trail wrist to well beyond impact.
I strongly favor this type of DH-hand release action and I cannot understand why Terry Rowles answered a question regarding the "swim paddle drill" (posed by Dubious Golfer) by stating-: "no this is a drill to heal the excessive lead arm drag and hold the angle epidemic". Does he think that Charlie Hoffmann's DH/hand release action indicates that he is part of an unfortunate epidemic of pro golfers who are "excessively dragging the lead arm and holding the angle" and does he believe that it is a sub-optimum way to perform a full swing action? If I ever get the opportunity to talk to Terry Rowles in person, that is one of the main questions that I would like him to answer. Jeff.
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Post by dubiousgolfer on Jul 24, 2021 11:43:36 GMT -5
Superb analysis Dr Mann
DG
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Post by imperfectgolfer on Jul 30, 2021 9:43:58 GMT -5
This is the 6th post in my ongoing series of posts where I will be analysing some of the opinions expressed by Terry Rowles and Mike Adams during their 12 webinar video sessions. In this post I will be focusing my attention on Mike Adams' method of determing the appropriate lead hand grip strength that a golfer should adopt at address. Here are capture images of Mike Adams showing how a golfer should determine his appropriate lead hand grip strength.
In image 1, Mike Adams is holding up a device, created for him by Edel, that he uses to determine the appropriate lead hand grip strength that a golfer should adopt at address.
You can see a vertical edge in the central metal piece that hides an angled slot where the golfer places his clubface so that the clubface is parallel to that vertical edge. That Edel device is first placed on the floor and then stabilised so that it does not move during the testing procedure. When holding the clubface against the slot in the central metal piece, while holding the club handle solely with the lead hand, the golfer is instructed to apply a push-force against the club handle by attempting to rotate the pelvis targetwards from its simulated impact alignment. Theoretically, any attempt to rotate the pelvis counterclockwise in a targetwards direction should induce the lead hand (which is holding the club handle) to produce a positive force/torque against that central metal piece, which can potentially swivel clockwise/counterclockwise within that black supporting frame. If the vertical edge remains vertical, that indicates that the golfer has adopted the appropriate lead hand grip strength. If the central metal piece rotates clockwise, thereby causing the clubface to become more open relative to the target, then Mike Adams recommends that the golfer should strengthen his lead hand grip strength until the central metal rotating piece does not rotate clockwise. If the central metal piece rotates counterclockwise, thereby causing the clubface to become more closed relative to the target, then Mike Adams recommends that the golfer should weaken his lead hand grip strength until the central metal rotating piece does not rotate counterclockwise.
Because most golfers do not have access to that Edel device, image 2 shows an alternative technique of performing the test. Note that Mike Adams is placing the clubface against a piece of wood so that the clubface is parallel to the wood surface. A number of stationary wooden surfaces could be used to perform the test eg. the wooden leg of a heavy table or sofa where the wooden edge is flat, a 2x4 piece of wood that is stabilised so that it cannot move during the test, or the straight edge of a door jamb. If the clubface remains parallel to the straight wooden edge during the testing procedure then the lead hand grip strength is appropriate. If the clubface rotates open during the test, so that the heel of the clubface remains in contact with the wooden edge while the toe of the clubface rotates clockwise away from the wooden edge, then Mike Adams states that the lead hand grip strength is too weak and he recommends that a golfer should strengthen his lead hand grip strength until the clubface does not rotate clockwise during the testing procedure.
What does this testing procedure actually test? Mike Adams does not directly answer that question in his video presentation. I can only imply that it signifies that the clubface has stability through impact, so that clubface contact with the ball, or clubface contact with the ground or thick grass in the rough, does not cause the clubface to rotate due to instability of the lead hand in terms of its ability to resist any rotary motion. Do I have sympathy for the "idea" that a golfer should have a stable clubface through impact, where the clubface does not rotate out of its square alignment during the impact interval as a result of ball/grass contact? I definitely favor the "idea" of having a stable clubface that remains square to the clubhead arc through impact if the clubface was first squared relative to the clubhead arc at the exact moment of first ball contact, and I can readily agree that the lead arm/hand play a major role in creating that condition of mechanical stability. However, I differ from Mike Adams because I do not believe that clubface stability is greater if the lead hand grip is strong, rather than neutral-or-weak, under the "real life" conditions of a pro golfer's full golf swing action.
Why would the clubface tend to rotate open in Mike Adams testing procedure if the lead hand grip's strength is too weak eg. when adopting a weak lead hand grip strength versus adopting a strong lead hand grip strength? From my perspective, the answer is patently obvious! If the lead hand grip strength is very strong so that the ulnar border of the lead hand faces the target during the testing procedure, then that means that the lead forearm is near its end-range of pronation, which makes it easier to prevent the lead forearm from pronating clockwise during the testing procedure. By contrast, if the lead hand grip strength is weak, then the lead forearm is in its mid-range of pronation-supination, and it is therefore biomechanically more susceptible to being rotated in a clockwise direction if the clubface is subjected to a positive force that can potentially induce a rotary torque phenomenon with respect to the lead forearm. So, I am not surprised to note that the clubface can rotate clockwise during Mike Adam's testing procedure if the lead hand grip strength is weak (versus strong). However, I think that Mike Adams' testing procedure is "artificial" and it does not take into account three potential factors that can allow a pro golfer, who adopts a weak lead hand grip, to have a very stable clubface through impact in his "real life" full golf swing action.
The first factor that can allow a pro golfer to have a very stable clubface through impact - despite adopting a weak-or-neutral lead hand grip - is for the golfer to use the intact LFFW/GFLW technique combined with a DH-hand release action through impact.
Here is a link to Kelli Oride's 3-wood swing video.
Here are capture images of Kelli Oride's DH-hand release action happening between P7 => P7.4.
Image 1 is at impact, image 2 is at P7.2 and image 3 is at P7.4.
Image 4 is a composite image showing the targetwards motion of her left hand and clubshaft/clubhead between P7 and P7.4. The accompanying diagram depicts her left shoulder socket in black, her left arm in red and her clubshaft in green. The blue dot represents her left hand and the orange dot represents the clubhead.
Note how Kelli Oride keeps the back of her left hand (GFLW) continuously facing the target between P7 and P7.4 and there is very little counterclockwise (or clockwise) rotation of her left hand happening between P7 and P7.4. Also, note that her left hand (represented by the blue dot in the diagram) moves targetwards at an angular velocity that perfectly matches the angular velocity of the clubhead (orange dot) and that synchronised lead arm-clubshaft action allows Kelli Oride to keep her LFFW intact, and it thereby prevents the clubshaft from bypassing her left arm (from an angular rotational perspective) between P7 => P7.4. That phenomenon defines a DH-hand release action and it allows a golfer to more reliably keep the clubface square to the clubhead arc during that early followthrough time period. It also helps Kelli Oride, who uses a weak lead hand grip strength, to avoid lead wrist breakdown (lead wrist flipping) or lead hand rotary instability throughout the immediate impact zone between P7 => P7.4.
A second factor that can promote rotary stability of the lead arm/hand through impact - if the golfer adopts a weak-or-neutral lead hand grip - is the biomechanical technique of having a bowed lead wrist through impact.
Here are capture images of Collin Morikawa's DH-hand release action through impact.
Image 1 is at impact, image 2 is at P7.2 and image 3 is at P7.4.
Note that Collin Morikawa is using a DH-hand release action through impact, which allows him to keep his clubface square to the clubhead arc through impact => P7.4.
Note that Collin Morikawa has a markedly bowed lead wrist (which is weak in terms of lead hand grip strength) at impact, which he maintains throughout the immediate impact zone between P7 => P7.4.
I personally think that having a bowed lead wrist at impact - as seen in those capture images above - confers an additional element of mechanical stability to the lead wrist/hand through impact that will help a golfer, who uses a weak lead hand grip, to resist any tendency to lead wrist breakdown (lead wrist flipping) or lead hand rotary instability through impact.
Many pro golfers (who adopt a weak lead hand grip) use a bowed lead wrist technique, and here is another example featuring Jon Rahm.
Image 1 is at impact, image 2 is at P7.2 and image 3 is at P7.4.
Note that Jon Rahm has a bowed lead wrist at impact, which he maintains during his lead hand's entire travel time period through the immediate impact zone between P7 => P7.4 and I believe that it confers an additional element of mechanical stability to his lead wrist/hand through impact that will help him resist any tendency to lead wrist breakdown (lead wrist flipping) or lead hand rotary instability through impact.
A third biomechanical technique that can be used to prevent lead wrist breakdown (lead wrist flipping) and that can also promote lead wrist rotary stability through impact is for the golfer to use a negative hand couple phenomenon through impact.
Here is a copy of Bertie Cordle's image showing a positive hand couple phenomemon through impact.
Bertie Cordle promotes the "idea" that a golfer should be manifesting a positive hand couple phenomenon at impact, where the lead hand is pushing against the club handle in an "away-from-the-target" direction (see green arrow) while the trail hand is pushing against the aft side of the club handle below the coupling point in a "towards-the-target" direction (see green arrow). Those two hand couple forces will induce the club handle to rotate about its coupling point (mid-point between the hands) in a counterclockwise direction (see small curved yellow arrows), and that will promote rotary instability of the lead hand in the frontal plane. If the hand couple forces working around the coupling point are not perfectly parallel to the ball-target line, then the positive hand couple phenomenon can also potentially promote rotary instability of the club handle (and therefore the lead hand) in a plane that is angled clockwise/counterclockwise relative to the ball-target line.
Here are capture images of Patrick Reed's non-DH hand release action.
Note that Patrick Reed is stalling the forward motion of his lead arm/hand through impact and that can promote the development of a positive lead hand couple phenomenon against the club handle above the coupling point in an "away-from-the-target" direction.
Note that Patrick Reed's trail hand is straightening through impact and that can promote the development of a positive trail hand couple phenomenon in a "towards-the-target" direction against the club handle below the coupling point. However, because his trail hand is also rotating counterclockwise through impact, a positive trail hand couple torque can potentially induce rotary instability of his lead hand in a plane that is not parallel to the ball-target line.
I think that it is better for a golfer to manifest a negative hand couple phenomenon through impact - where the lead hand is pulling the club handle above the coupling point in a "towards-the-target" direction, while the trail hand is applying a negative (impeding) force below the coupling point in an "away-from-the-target" direction.
Consider Cameron Champ's DH-hand release action through impact.
Image 1 is at impact, image 2 is at P7.2 and image 3 is at P7.4.
Note that Cameron Camp is using a bowed lead wrist technique and a DH-hand release action between P7 => P7.4.
Cameron Champ, who adopts a weak lead hand grip, is obviously not stalling his lead hand's motion in a targetward direction after impact. He is far more likely to be actively pulling the club handle in a "towards-the-target" direction with his lead hand and he is therefore generating a negative lead hand couple torque between P7 => P7.4.
Note that Cameron Champ does not "run-out-of-trail arm" between P7 => P7.4 and he maintains an incompletely straightened trail arm and a significantly bent trail wrist during that time period. I can readily imagine that he is potentially generating a negative trail hand couple torque against the aft side of the club handle below the coupling point = which means that he is applying a force/torque below the coupling point that is directed "away-from-the-target" and which resists any tendency for the lead wrist to flip or roll through impact. No golf researcher has actually measured the forces/torques being exerted by the trail hand with respect to the club handle below the coupling point through impact - so we can only theoretically conjecture whether Cameron Champ is really applying a negative hand couple torque through impact. However, I would not be surprised if a negative hand couple torque actually exists at impact during Cameron Champ's DH-hand release action and it could potentially help him to avoid any rotary instability of his bowed lead wrist/hand through impact.
I personally think that Mike Adams' "lead hand grip" test is of no practical value because any skilled golfer, who arbitrarily chooses to adopt a weak lead hand grip alignment at address, can use a number of additional biomechanical elements to ensure that his lead hand is very stable from a flipping-and-rotary perspective at impact, and also through impact into the early followthrough time period between P7 => P7.4.
Jeff.
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Post by dubiousgolfer on Jul 30, 2021 11:32:49 GMT -5
Dr Mann
"Note that Patrick Reed is stalling the forward motion of his lead arm/hand through impact and that can promote the development of a positive lead hand couple phenomenon against the club handle above the coupling point in an "away-from-the-target" direction.
Note that Patrick Reed's trail hand is straightening through impact and that can promote the development of a positive trail hand couple phenomenon in a "towards-the-target" direction against the club handle below the coupling point."
Not sure I understand the above because Patrick Reeds club shaft is in forward bend so he must be applying a net negative couple at the grip. So how can he have a negative hand couple if both the left and right hands are both developing positive hand couples?
DG
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Post by imperfectgolfer on Jul 30, 2021 13:22:57 GMT -5
Dr Mann "Note that Patrick Reed is stalling the forward motion of his lead arm/hand through impact and that can promote the development of a positive lead hand couple phenomenon against the club handle above the coupling point in an "away-from-the-target" direction. Note that Patrick Reed's trail hand is straightening through impact and that can promote the development of a positive trail hand couple phenomenon in a "towards-the-target" direction against the club handle below the coupling point." Not sure I understand the above because Patrick Reeds club shaft is in forward bend so he must be applying a net negative couple at the grip. So how can he have a negative hand couple if both the left and right hands are both developing positive hand couples? DG Patrick Reed's peripheral clubshaft has forward shaft bend between P6 => P7, so he should have a negative hand couple torque phenomenoin in play during his late downswing. However, he straightens his right arm and right wrist as he "runs-out-of-right arm" at impact, and then through impact, when he is also when he is starting to stall the forward motion of his lead arm and it is therefore possible that he has a "positive hand couple phenomenon" scenario post-impact. I think that it would require a pressure sensor research study to definitively establish what is really happening through impact in his driver golf swing action. Jeff.
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Post by dubiousgolfer on Jul 30, 2021 16:34:19 GMT -5
Dr Mann
Yes , that makes perfect sense if post-impact.
DG
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Post by dubiousgolfer on Jul 31, 2021 10:13:17 GMT -5
Dr Mann
When you say Patrick Reed is 'stalling' his targetwards left arm motion through impact do you really mean he is not providing enough targetwards impetus post impact like Cameron Champ (that he is stalling his upper body pivot)?
DG
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Post by imperfectgolfer on Aug 5, 2021 11:48:19 GMT -5
Dr Mann When you say Patrick Reed is 'stalling' his targetwards left arm motion through impact do you really mean he is not providing enough targetwards impetus post impact like Cameron Champ (that he is stalling his upper body pivot)? DG I think that Cameron Champ is keeping his lead arm's targetwards motion sufficiently high between P7 => P7.4 so that he can be a DHer while Patrick Reed's lead arm is stalling between P7 => P7.4. Getting a very open pelvis/upper torso through impact makes it easier to maintain a higher speed of lead arm motion in a targetwards direction, but it does not cause it to happen. The speed of lead arm motion between P7 => P7.4 depends on a golfer's swing technique. A DHer must prevent lead arm stalling through impact.
Patrick Reed and Freddie Couples both stall their lead arm's targetwards motion post-impact and they both "run-out-of-trail arm" post impact.
Consider these capture images of Freddie Couples through impact.
Note how his lead arm's targetwards motion is very slow through impact. Note how he "runs-out-of-trail arm" through impact and how that causes his trail wrist to fully straighten. Note how his clubshaft bypasses his lead arm post-impact and note how his clubface rolls closed relative to his clubhead arc. The major difference to Patrick Reed is that his trail palm is not rolling over the top of his club handle during his non-DH hand release action because he uses a strong trail hand grip while Patrick Reed uses a weak trail hand grip. Jeff.
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Post by imperfectgolfer on Aug 5, 2021 12:01:57 GMT -5
This is my 7th post in my ongoing series of posts where I analyse some of the opinions expressed by Mike Adams and Terry Rowles in their 12 webinar video sessions. In a previous post, I analysed the effect of adopting a weak trail hand grip on the golf swing action of pro golfers, and I concluded that it is irrational to claim that the body/arm motions manifested by a pro golfers during the downswing are introvertibly causally-linked to the adoption of a weak trail hand grip. I demonstrated that the body/arm motions manifested by Patrick Reed/Marc Leishman (who use a weak trail hand grip) during their downswing and early followthrough are very different to those of other pro golfers (who also use a weak trail hand grip), but who use a lead arm swinging action combined with an intact LFFW swing technique + DH-hand release action. I will now analyse the downswing action of some pro golfers who use a strong trail hand grip and I will again demonstrate that there is no necessary causal link between their trail hand grip strength and their downswing's body/arm motions. Terry Rowles use Dustin Johnson as an example of a pro golfer who swings in a particular way that Terry believes is causally linked to the fact that he uses a strong trail hand grip. Consider these capture images of Dustin Johnson's late downswing action. Image 1 is at his P6 position, image 2 is at his P6.5 position and image 3 is at his P7 position.
Note that his trail elbow is in a pitch location in front of his trail hip joint area at his P6 position, and Mike Adams would likely label that a front-linkage position.
Then, note that his trail elbow slides targetwards across the front of his trail pelvis between P6 => P7 and that his hands are well ahead of the ball at impact creating a lot of forward shaft lean at impact. Also, note that DJ opens his pelvis/upper torso by a significant amount during his late downswing and early followthrough while maintaining his spinal bend inclination angle. TR/MA seemingly believe that these body/arm motional phenomena are causally linked to the fact that he adopted a strong trail hand grip at address.
Another pro golfer who manifests the same body/arm motions as Dustin Johnson, and who also uses a strong trail hand grip, is Lee Trevino.
Although Lee Trevino takes his arm/club up steeply during his backswing action, he does shallow his clubshaft by a large amount during his early-mid downswing and he can therefore be classified as a low track golfer.
Consider this capture image of Lee Trevino at his P5.5 position. Note that Lee Trevino has shallowed his clubshaft down to the elbow plane by P5.5. Note that his trail forearm is markedly supinated and that his trail palm is positioned under the club handle.
Here is a capture image of Lee Trevino at impact.
Note that he has shallowed his clubshaft down to the hand plane (hip plane) by impact.
Note that his pelvis and upper torso are very open to the target at impact and note that he has a large amount of right lateral bend. Note that he has maintained his spinal bend inclination and that he is not prematurely "standing-up" through impact.
I can readily agree that i) coming down a low track between P4 => P6, ii) that acquiring a significant amount of right lateral bend, iii) that having their trail elbow in a front-linkage position at P6 and iv) that coming into impact with a very open pelvis/upper torso alignment is very frequently seen in pro golfers who use a strong trail hand grip - but I do not believe that it proves that adopting a strong trail hand grip causes those body/arm motions.
There are a number of pro golfers who come down a steep track between P4 => P6, who have their trail elbow in a rear-linkage position at P6, and who do not have a very open pelvis/upper torso alignment at impact, but who still choose to use a strong trail hand grip.
Consider the golf swing action of Fred Couples, who uses a strong trail hand grip.
Capture images of Fred Couples' trail hand grip. Image 1 shows his hands at address, and image 2 is a close-up image of his hands.
Note that he adopts a strong lead hand grip and also a strong trail hand grip at address.
Now, consider these capture images of Fred Couples' downswing action. Image 1 is at his P6 position, image 2 is at his P6.5 position, and image 3 is at his P7 position.
Note that his trail elbow is in a rear-linkage position at P6 and note that his trail elbow does not slide across the front of his trail hip joint area between P6 => P7. Note that he has very little forward shaft lean at impact and note that his hands are just inside his lead thigh at impact. Note that his pelvis is minimally open at P6 and note he does not continue to rotate his pelvis counterclockwise to a more open position between P6 => P7. Note that his upper torso is roughly parallel to the ball-target line at impact. In fact, all these biomechanical features are much more similar to those seen in Patrick Reed's downswing action and Patrick Reed uses a weak trail hand grip.
Capture images of Patrick Reed's downswing action. Note that his trail elbow is in a rear-linkage position at P6 (image 1) and that his hands are inside his lead thigh at impact and that he has very little forward shaft lean. Note that his pelvis is only slightly open at impact, and his upper torso is nearly parallel to the ball-target at impact. Another claim that MA/TR make with respect to pro golfers, who use a strong trail hand grip, is the claim that they will more likely swing on a low track (hip-slot plane) during their backswing and downswing, and that they will be swinging their arms/club more around their body during their downswing and that they will not be coming down steeply between P4 => P6 like a high track golfer who comes down the shoulder plane. See these capture images of Ed Tischler demonstrating the trail arm/hand motions of an "under golfer" (who uses a strong trail hand grip), which I copied from Ed Tischler's BioSwing Dynamics website page at www.newhorizonsgolf.com/BioSwingDynamics.html Note how he is shallowing his trail arm action down to a low track path (hip-slot plane) between P4 (image 1) => P7 (image 3) - as seen in Lee Trevino's downswing action.
Now, although many pro golfers (like Lee Trevino), who adopt a strong trail hand grip, manifest those biomechanical features, they are not always present in a pro golfer who chooses to use a strong trail hand grip.
Here are capture images of Fred Couples' downswing action - as viewed from a DTL viewing perspective. Image 1 is at his P4 position, image 2 is at his P5 position, image 3 is at his P5.75 position and image 4 is at impact.
Note that Fred Couples' lead arm is angled very steeply at his P4 position and his trail elbow is flying (as seen in a pro golfer, like Colin Montgomerie, who adopts a weak trail hand grip).
Note how steeply his clubshaft is positioned at his P5 position - it cuts across the top of his trail shoulder.
Note that his clubshaft is positioned on the shoulder plane (TSP) at impact (image 4), which means that he did not shallow his clubshaft down to the hip-plane (hand plane) during his downswing action.
Here is another example of a pro golfer, who adopts a strong trail hand grip at address, and who also does not shallow his clubshaft during his downswing action.
Jamie Sadlowski's downswing action. Image 1 is at his P4 position, image 2 is at his P5 position, image 3 is at his P5.5 position and image 4 is at impact.
The red splined path represents his hand arc path, which is roughly positioned on the TSP (shoulder plane).
Note that Jamie Sadlowski's clubshaft comes down the shoulder plane during his downswing action and that his clubshaft is positioned on the TSP at impact - and note that he does not shallow his clubshaft down to the shallow hip-plane (hand plane) during his downswing action.
I know of no biomechanical law that mandates that a pro golfer must use a weak trail hand grip if he comes down a high track path during his downswing action (as seen in Fred Couples and Jamie Sadlowksi's driver swing action) and I believe that the choice of trail hand grip strength is an optional choice. I think that it would be ridiculous for me to assert that Fred Couples and Jamie Sadlowski are wrong in their choice to use a strong trail hand grip just because they are high-track golfers - considering how well they perform their driver golf swing action.
Another opinion expressed by Mike Adams in one of the video sessions is his opinion that adopting a strong trail hand grip affects the pattern of pelvic motion during the downswing action.
Consider these capture images of Mike Adams, which I copied from one of the video sessions. In image 1, Mike Adams is standing in his kitchen and he has his trail hand in an "under" position with the ulnar border of his trail hand abutted against the firm side of his kitchen counter wall. He then increasingly presses against the side of the kitchen counter wall with the ulnar border of his trail hand and he claims that it causes his pelvis to glide laterally in a targetwards direction.
In image 2, Mike Adams repeats the demonstration, but with the palm of his hand in a "side-on" position so that he can press his trail palm against the firm side of his kitchen counter wall. He claims that it causes his pelvis to rotate ("spin") counterclockwise, and not glide laterally.
I personally believe that this "test" is artificial and I also believe that it is based on irrational biomechanical reasoning. I repeated the "test" at home, and I do not perceive that I have any tendency to glide-or-spin depending on the alignment of my trail hand. Try it yourself! Any force being exerted by the trail hand against the side of the kitchen counter causes a reactive force (according to Newton's second law) that is transmitted up the trail arm to the trail shoulder socket area. The "idea" that the reactive force operating at the level of the trail shoulder socket will cause the pelvis to move in a different way makes no sense to me. I personally think that Mike Adams has a mental propensity to move his pelvis in a different way during the "test" because of his pre-conceived golf swing ideological opinions.
Secondly, what "causality connection" does this "arbitrary test" have with respect to a pro golfer's pelvic motion during the early downswing if the pro golfer adopts a strong trail hand grip? Do you really believe that a pro golfer is moving the trail arm/hand actively in the early downswing and that its active motion is causally responsible for the different pelvic motions manifested by different pro golfers who all adopt a strong trail hand grip?
Consider Dustin Johnson's pelvic motion during the early downswing. Image 1 is at his P4 position, image 2 is at his P4.5 position, image 3 is at his P5 position and image 4 is at his P6 position.
Note that I have drawn red lines alongside the outer border of his pelvis at his P4 position. Dustin Johnson is a rear-post golfer, and he manifests a rightwards pelvic loading pattern at his P4 position.
Note that DJ shifts-and-rotates his pelvis simultaneously between P4 and P4.5 and that most of the glide (left-lateral pelvic shift) component of his pelvic motion happens between P4 => P4.5 and that he does not shift his pelvis significantly more targetwards between P4.5 => P6. Note that his trail upper arm is moving mainly downwards, and very little targetwards, during his active right arm adduction maneuver that is happening between P4 => P4.5 and I do not believe that it is causally responsible for any left-lateral pelvic shift motion happening between P4 => P4.5. I think that the DJ's pelvis automatically/naturally slides targetwards during his early downswing because he has a rightward-pelvic loading pattern at his P4 position, and his pelvis will naturally slide targetwards during his active hip-squaring phase that happens between P4 => P5. I cannot mentally perceive that his trail hand's strong grip alignment is causally responsible for his particular pattern of pelvic motion, and I could readily imagine that his pelvis would move in exactly the same way during his early-mid downswing if he changed his trail hand grip's position from being "under" to being "side-on".
Consider another argument. I could imagine Mike Adams arguing that DJ's strong trail hand grip is not causing DJ's pelvic shift motion in a targetwards direction between P4 => P4.5 via the mechanism of the trail arm's "real life" motion happening during that P4 => P4.5 time period, but that it is happening via a different mechanism - via the intent mechanism. The intent mechanism would become operational if a pro golfer plans to perform an active trail upper arm adduction maneuver with his trail arm during his early-mid downswing with the deliberate intention of driving his trail elbow very actively towards its pitch location in front of the trail hip joint area (front-linkage position) by P6 - and that his pelvis reacts to his "intent" by sliding targetwards between P4 => P6. Under those conditions, the degree of left-lateral pelvic slide motion should correlate with the degree of "active trail upper arm adduction + pitch elbow motion" that is happening between P4 => P6. However, there is no apparent correlation between those two biomechanical phenomena in pro golfers who adopt a strong trail hand grip.
Consider these capture images of the pelvic motion manifested by 3 pro golfers who adopt a strong trail hand grip. Image 2 shows how much Fred Couples has shifted his pelvis left-laterally between P4 (image 1) and P5.5 (image 2). He has shifted his pelvis so much targetwards that a vertical line drawn downwards from the outer border of his left pelvis at P5.5 is outside his lead inner heel - and he fits the pattern of being primarily a "glider".
Image 3 shows Justin Thomas at his end-backswing position. Note that I have drawn red lines alongside the outer border of his pelvis at his P4 position.
Image 4 shows Justin Thomas at his P5.5 position. Note that he has shifted his pelvis left-laterally to a small degree, but that a vertical line drawn downwards from the outer border of his left pelvis at P5.5 is well inside his lead inner heel. So, he is shifting his pelvis targetwards far less than Fred Couples - and he fits the pattern of primarily being a "glider-spinner".
Image 5 shows Jamie Sadlowski at his end-backswing position. Note that I have drawn red lines alongside the outer border of his pelvis at his P4 position.
Image 6 shows Jamie Sadlowksi at his P5.5 position. Note that Jamie Sadlowski does not shift (glide) his pelvis left-laterally towards the target between P4 => P5.5 and he fits the pattern of being a pure "spinner".
Who is likely performing the most active "trail upper arm adduction maneuver combined with a pitch elbow motion" between P4 => P5.5 - Fred Couples or Jamie Sadlowksi? I think that the correct answer is Jamie Sadlowski - which suggests that there could be a negative-or-neutral correlation between the significant use of an active "trail upper arm adduction maneuver + pitch elbow motion of the trail elbow" and any tendency to shift the pelvis left-laterally during the early-mid downswing in pro golfers who use a strong trail hand grip. I personally conclude that those 3 pro golfers simply have a different active pelvic motional pattern - despite the fact that they all use a strong trail hand grip - and I believe that the adoption of a strong trail hand grip plays no casual role in their individual pattern of pelvic pivot motion during their downswing action. I think that it makes no sense from a biomechanical perspective to claim that the personal choice of a particular trail hand grip pattern is a major causative factor in a pro golfer's pattern of pelvic motion during the downswing (launcher pattern versus glider pattern versus spinner pattern).
Another personal opinion expressed by Terry Rowles is that the choice of a strong trail hand grip also causes a golfer to swing upwards through impact, which will therefore be associated with Trackman evidence of a positive clubhead attack angle, a higher launch angle and a lower ball spin rate at impact. Terry Rowles uses Justin Thomas as an example of a pro golfer who uses a strong trail hand grip.
Here is a copy of an image from the MA/TR video session where Terry Rowles presents Justin Thomas' Trackman data for his driver swing. Note that Justin Thomas has a positive clubhead attack angle of 3.1 degrees and a low spin rate of 1,804 degrees/second.
Terry Rowles is implying that there is direct casual link between adopting a strong trail hand grip and an upward clubhead motion (positive clubhead attack angle) through impact.
However, I disagree that they are causally connected, and I think that the primary reason why Justin Thomas has a positive clubhead attack angle of 3.1 degrees in his driver swing action (when the PGA tour average is apparently negative 0.5 degrees) is causally related to his particular pivot motion pattern and his particular pattern of lead arm motion through impact.
Consider these capture images of Justin Thomas and Freddie Couples through impact. Note that Justin Thomas reaches P6.8 with his lead arm vertical and that his lead arm is angled towards the target soon after impact. Note how much his lead hand has moved upwards between image 1 => image 2.
By contrast, Freddie Couples' lead hand does not move upwards between image 3 and image 4. If he does have any upwards motion of his clubhead through impact, then it is more likely due to the clubshaft flipping motion caused by his straightening trail wrist that allows the clubshaft to flip passed his lead arm as he performs a non-DH hand release action. By contrast, Justin Thomas is a DHer who maintains an intact LFFW/GFLW through impact by leading with his lead arm, which does not stall through impact.
Here is a video featuring Robert Neal, who analyses Justin Thomas' swing action. Note how Robert Neal states that Justin Thomas has a very active lead pelvis elevation phenomenon happening through impact and that his hands are ahead of the ball at impact and that they are still moving upwards through impact. I can readily agree that the interplay of his particular pivot action and his particular lead arm motion is causally responsible for the fact that Justin Thomas has a positive clubhead attack angle at impact, and I think that there is no causal connection between his positive clubhead attack angle at impact and the fact that he adopts a strong trail hand grip at address. Jeff.
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Post by dubiousgolfer on Aug 6, 2021 19:08:17 GMT -5
Dr Mann
Didn't TR/MA mention some data from Dr Phil Cheetham to support their opinion about the trail hand strength changing the clubhead angle of attack and path, spin ,etc ? Is there any cause and effect correlation published data?
DG
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