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Post by imperfectgolfer on Aug 8, 2023 14:14:30 GMT -5
I still cannot comprehend the concept of vertical, horizontal and rotational body motions as you describe them.
Jeff.
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Post by playing18 on Aug 9, 2023 23:03:20 GMT -5
Dr. Mann,
Homer Kelley wrote a lot about how the arms/wrists/hands function during the golf swing and how they move and transmit/produce power. He did not, if I recall correctly, write much about how the arms/wrists/hands influence shot accuracy. He also provided limited information about body motion (minus the arms/wrists/hands) and how this body motion influences power and accuracy. He did suggest that the body pivot is the power source of power accumulator 4 (pa#4).
You have spent countless hours seeking to understand and organize HK’s ideas in a meaningful way. No one understands the golfing machine (TGM) better than you. Of course, you have also gone far beyond the work of HK in understanding and explaining the entire golf swing, including the biomechanics of both the arms and the body.
I’m also attempting to move beyond the arm-focus bias of TGM, to understand how the body can independently influence power and accuracy assuming the arms move correctly. To simply say the body pivot is what powers pa#4 is not enough.
We know there are three motions the body can do during the downswing: horizontal, rotational, and vertical motion. There are various names for each, such as: sliding, turning, and extending.
It would be nice to have valid biomechanical data showing the specific influence that each body motion has on swing power, but it’s relatively easy to see this with slow motion video. Targetward horizontal lead shoulder motion adds to the speed of the lead arm (pa#4) along the frontal plane. Rotational lead shoulder motion adds to the speed of the lead arm (pa#4) in the transverse plane. Both horizontal and rotational body motion is likely what increases lead arm speed (pa#4) from p4 to p5.5. Vertical upward lead shoulder motion probably exerts its influence more on pa#2, later in the downswing between p5.5 to p7, as the lead wrist unhinges into ulnar deviation. It makes sense that body extension could directly influence the efficient release of pa#2 near the bottom of the U-shaped swing path, as the swing path turns the corner.
But, again I don’t need data, words, or logic to convince me of this. I regularly see it on the golf course. A player will effectively do some combination of these body motions and hit the ball 300 yards with relative ease. I see the targetward motion, I see the powerful pivoting, and I see the explosive body extension, in some combination. As a result, the ball flies 300 yards. The two major power accumulators, 4 and 2, are fully energized and release their power into the club head and ball at impact, as HK explained.
It’s also easy to see how each body motion can influence the swing path, which means each body motion can influence shot accuracy. Power accumulators are only part of the story. Horizontal body motion exerts an in-to-out swing path bias. Rotational body motion exerts an out-to-in swing path bias. Vertical upward body motion exerts an in-to-out swing path bias. Managing the three body motions is an important way to manage shot accuracy.
Of course the arms can easily generate too much or too little force at the wrong time during the downswing and can easily overshadow any swing path influence of body motion and cause on under- or over-plane swing path fault irrespective of body motion. However, the resultant swing path is a net effect with input blended from multiple sources. In other words, the OTT swing fault due to over-active arms can be made less severe if the player at the same time inputs more horizontal or vertical body motion, all else being equal. In addition, the OTT swing fault can be made worse if at the same time the player inputs even more rotational body motion, all else being equal.
Shot accuracy is a blending of many variables with input coming from both arm and body motion sources. Shot accuracy is a net-effect concept.
Swing power relies on the same net-effect concept. Input comes from both arm and body motion sources, but mostly from the body.
Since both accuracy and power are based on the net-effect of various body and arm motions/forces, there is no single right way to swing a golf club. Any proper combination of variables can be used to hit straight shots and long shots. There is no one correct grip, address position, backswing, transition, downswing, or follow-through. There is no one PGA tour swing for everyone to copy. Many different swings can be considered elite. The key is for each golfer finds the specific combination of variables that works best for him or her.
Here are some examples of how applying proper body and arm motion might help solve a given swing fault:
--What if a player swings OTT and pulls the shot left, should he or she rotate less? Body rotation is mandatory for this side-on game and rarely is too excessive. The player needs to make sure the arms are remaining passive enough (not getting ahead of the pivot) and make sure enough horizontal and/or vertical body motion is included to improve the swing path.
--What if a player hits a high push to the right, assuming the arms are not to blame? The player is probably using too much horizontal and/or vertical body motion, with too little body rotation. This might happen when the player is afraid of hitting the ball left so he or she inputs a bail-out anti-left swing and does so by not rotating the body and using excessive horizontal and vertical body motion. It works but is an ineffective approach. A proper combination of proper horizontal, rotational, and vertical body motion is needed on every swing.
--What if a player can’t jump very well, should he or she dismiss the idea of using vertical upward body motion during the downswing? Vertical force input promotes an in-to-out swing path bias that may help to improve accuracy of any golfer. The input of vertical force, even in low amounts, applied at the correct time could also improve power. Each player should use a proper combination of all three body motions.
--What if a player maximizes all three body motions during the downswing, yet seems to not hit the ball as far as he or she should? Maybe a given body motion is interfering with the full expression of another body motion. For example, it might be best for the player to do less horizontal motion so he or she can more fully express the vertical component. Doing less horizontal and more vertical might produce much more power for certain golfers. This appears to be the case for Dustin Johnson.
--What if a player maximizes all three body motions during the downswing, yet seems to not hit the ball as accurately as he or she should? Maybe a given body motion is interfering with the ideal expression of the other two body motions. For example, it might be best for the player to use less vertical motion so he or she can more effectively express the horizontal and rotational components. Doing less vertical motion might produce better shot accuracy for certain golfers. This appears to be the case for Gary Woodland.
--What if a player inputs proper arm motion and function into the swing, yet hits the ball poorly? He or she also needs to input a proper combination of proper horizontal, rotational, and vertical body motion into his or her swing. An effective swing requires proper body motion and proper arm motion.
--What if a player inputs a proper combination of horizontal, rotational, and vertical body motion into the swing, yet hits the ball poorly? He or she also needs to input proper arm motion and function into the swing. An effective swing requires proper body motion and proper arm motion.
Homer got part of it right. There is just a lot more to the story.
Jim playing18
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