Post by dubiousgolfer on Aug 25, 2023 6:11:59 GMT -5
I was in communication with Tyler Ferrell about Gary Woodland's hands video below:
My Question:
Because the lead and trail wrists could be gripping the club orthogonal to each other , especially with weak-neutral grips, the relative wrists motions could be quite complex. For example, looking at this slow motion video of Gary Woodland's wrists , it seems that his trail forearm is supinating while his trail wrist ulnar deviates and flexes at the same time (ie. circumduction) just before impact. I'm assuming that his forearm will start pronating through impact. I don't have access to AMM3D kinematic data like yourself but do you see that type of trail wrist pattern in other tour pros with weak-neutral grips? That is, trail forearm supination and wrist circumduction (ulnar deviation & flexion) coupled with lead wrist supination and ulnar deviation (with some extension) from P6-P7?
TF Reply:
Here's Gary's AMM wrist graph. I think you're assessment from the video is pretty accurate. I've never seen a golfer who didn't pronate just before or just after impact. I'm sure it's possible, but I've never seen it. The trail wrist pattern on the graphs looks somewhat similar for tour pros, even with different grip styles. That's one of the challenges of interpreting the trail wrist graphs.
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Here are 5 more trail wrist graphs but TF never mentioned who they were (but I'll try and ask him).
I'm still unsure how you would interpret these graphs for different hand release styles in a real life golf swing without knowing the angle the lead/trail forearms are making with the ball-target line approaching P7.
For example, Jon Sinclair thought it was a 'bug' in the AMM3D system that showed Daniel Berger moving his lead wrist in the flexion direction through impact. Out of all the 100's of tour pros on his system, DB was the only one who wasn't moving his wrist in the extension direction through impact.
But if you look at the video below, there does seem to be a possible explanation.
DB's lead forearm/wrist is facing the ball-target line approaching impact, while the tension pull by the club on his hands will be about 100 lb force. Therefore if his lead wrist was in extension because of his very strong grip, its going to be pulled into less extension through impact.
Without cross-referencing against another graph (or a slow-mo video) showing the angles that the lead/trail forearms are making with the ball-target line approaching impact, it is difficult to make an interpretation of hand release styles just using those AMM3D lead/trail wrist graphs.
DG
My Question:
Because the lead and trail wrists could be gripping the club orthogonal to each other , especially with weak-neutral grips, the relative wrists motions could be quite complex. For example, looking at this slow motion video of Gary Woodland's wrists , it seems that his trail forearm is supinating while his trail wrist ulnar deviates and flexes at the same time (ie. circumduction) just before impact. I'm assuming that his forearm will start pronating through impact. I don't have access to AMM3D kinematic data like yourself but do you see that type of trail wrist pattern in other tour pros with weak-neutral grips? That is, trail forearm supination and wrist circumduction (ulnar deviation & flexion) coupled with lead wrist supination and ulnar deviation (with some extension) from P6-P7?
TF Reply:
Here's Gary's AMM wrist graph. I think you're assessment from the video is pretty accurate. I've never seen a golfer who didn't pronate just before or just after impact. I'm sure it's possible, but I've never seen it. The trail wrist pattern on the graphs looks somewhat similar for tour pros, even with different grip styles. That's one of the challenges of interpreting the trail wrist graphs.
-------------------------------------
Here are 5 more trail wrist graphs but TF never mentioned who they were (but I'll try and ask him).
I'm still unsure how you would interpret these graphs for different hand release styles in a real life golf swing without knowing the angle the lead/trail forearms are making with the ball-target line approaching P7.
For example, Jon Sinclair thought it was a 'bug' in the AMM3D system that showed Daniel Berger moving his lead wrist in the flexion direction through impact. Out of all the 100's of tour pros on his system, DB was the only one who wasn't moving his wrist in the extension direction through impact.
But if you look at the video below, there does seem to be a possible explanation.
DB's lead forearm/wrist is facing the ball-target line approaching impact, while the tension pull by the club on his hands will be about 100 lb force. Therefore if his lead wrist was in extension because of his very strong grip, its going to be pulled into less extension through impact.
Without cross-referencing against another graph (or a slow-mo video) showing the angles that the lead/trail forearms are making with the ball-target line approaching impact, it is difficult to make an interpretation of hand release styles just using those AMM3D lead/trail wrist graphs.
DG