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Post by dubiousgolfer on Mar 9, 2024 5:29:45 GMT -5
Dr Mann Here is a Pro golfer (I do not have his name) that is showing: The trail forearm (BLUE graph) in pronation but pronating in the early downswing (between P4 -P5.5?) approx 10 degrees. The lead upper arm (red graph) is in pronation but also supinating approximately 10 degrees (between P4-P5.5?). The trail upper arm (green graph) is basically in supination but doesn't change (between P4-P5.5). Are you able to theorise what this golfer is doing in the early downswing because all I can visualise (without seeing the golfers actual swing or other body movements) is a club shaft steepening action? DG
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Post by imperfectgolfer on Mar 9, 2024 10:15:27 GMT -5
Dr Mann Here is a Pro golfer (I do not have his name) that is showing: The trail forearm (BLUE graph) in pronation but pronating in the early downswing (between P4 -P5.5?) approx 10 degrees. The lead upper arm (red graph) is in pronation but also supinating approximately 10 degrees (between P4-P5.5?). The trail upper arm (green graph) is basically in supination but doesn't change (between P4-P5.5). Are you able to theorise what this golfer is doing in the early downswing because all I can visualise (without seeing the golfers actual swing or other body movements) is a club shaft steepening action? DG I cannot interpret these graphs because I do not know how they can accurately measure rotation of the upper arms. Also, why do they use the term "SP" (? supination/pronation) for a rotation of the upper arms? Also, why is there no lead forearm rotation graph? Also, how can the red graph show so much rotation of the lead upper arm in a counterclockwise direction? I suspect that it could also reflect the influence of lead forearm supination. Jeff.
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Post by dubiousgolfer on Mar 9, 2024 13:54:23 GMT -5
I must admit , I was confused about that SP term as I thought it should be 'Rot' just like TrlFArmRot but apparently it does mean Supination/Pronation (I'll try and double-check). What also confused me was the green trail upper arm (green graph) showing slight movement in the pronation direction (from 0.95 time point) while the forearm was supinating until 1.05 time point (does that make sense from an anatomical perspective?). The other thing I've noticed with these AMM graphs (and I've seen this before) is the horizontal time axis scale changes intermittently between 0.2 and 0.3 time differences. Have you noticed that before? That makes interpretation of the graphs difficult when comparing movement between early and late downswing phases. DG
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Post by dubiousgolfer on Mar 9, 2024 16:27:26 GMT -5
Dr Mann Apparently most pros pronate their trail forearm first in the early downswing before supinating. The Jon Sinclair graphs are so smoothed out that they fail to show that initial pronation at the correct positions during the downswing. I don't remember Jon Sinclair mentioning any of the above in the Larry Rinker videos or any other videos. Still trying to confirm whether SP means supination/pronation . I don't think one can use JS's smoothed graphs to evaluate what is accurately happening on either side of specific positions. For example the smoothing algorithm has estimated the TOP position , but in reality there would be horizontal error bars in that position (left to right of the TOP position) in the graph below. If the TOP position shifted to the left (as shown by the yellow line), then that would show pronation in the early downswing. I'm afraid I am still confused because look at this video where JS is saying "most of them do that up and back move" at the 1:28 point . That looks like a trail forearm supination move not pronation. He is also obviously implying that both forearms supinate in the downswing and there is no mention of early trail forearm pronation. Could the up and back move be moving the club off plane during the transition? Therefore there is a need for the trail forearm to pronate in the early downswing to move it back on plane? But the question is why would pro golfers do that 'up and back' move ? DG
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Post by dubiousgolfer on Mar 10, 2024 9:33:07 GMT -5
Here is Rory's swing from an above view. www.facebook.com/PGATour/videos/rory-mcilory-swing-from-overhead-angle/596065355648187/Is his trail forearm pronating in the early downswing? I am not an expert in identifying the orientation of the radial bone relative to the antecubital fossa but I've tried to draw the red lines as per below. If I've done this correctly it does look like he is slightly pronating his trail forearm in the early downswing. DG
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Post by imperfectgolfer on Mar 10, 2024 11:25:46 GMT -5
Here is Rory's swing from an above view. www.facebook.com/PGATour/videos/rory-mcilory-swing-from-overhead-angle/596065355648187/Is his trail forearm pronating in the early downswing? I am not an expert in identifying the orientation of the radial bone relative to the antecubital fossa but I've tried to draw the red lines as per below. If I've done this correctly it does look like he is slightly pronating his trail forearm in the early downswing. DG I cannot see any evidence of trail forearm pronation. If it happens to a very small degree, then it is biomechanically irrelevant because the amount is so small and so short-lived. Jeff.
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Post by dubiousgolfer on Mar 15, 2024 11:02:11 GMT -5
I must admit , I was confused about that SP term as I thought it should be 'Rot' just like TrlFArmRot but apparently it does mean Supination/Pronation (I'll try and double-check). What also confused me was the green trail upper arm (green graph) showing slight movement in the pronation direction (from 0.95 time point) while the forearm was supinating until 1.05 time point (does that make sense from an anatomical perspective?). The other thing I've noticed with these AMM graphs (and I've seen this before) is the horizontal time axis scale changes intermittently between 0.2 and 0.3 time differences. Have you noticed that before? That makes interpretation of the graphs difficult when comparing movement between early and late downswing phases. DG I've found out that the sensors on AMM3D are particularly prone to small glitches for the Lead/Trail upper arm supination/pronation. So that green graph showing rotation in the pronation direction is probably incorrect. I've also found out that the time axis values are rounded numbers so: 0.0 could actually be a value between 0.00 - 0.04 0.3 could actually be a value between 0.25-0.34 0.5 could actually be a value between 0.45-0.54 0.8 could actually be a value between 0.75-0.84 1.0 could actually be a value between 0.95-1.04 1.3 could actually be a value between 1.25-1.34 1.5 could actually be a value between 1.45-1.54 DG
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