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Post by imperfectgolfer on Dec 7, 2010 10:42:03 GMT -5
Brian M recommends a twistaway maneuver as a slice-curing phenomenon. He states on his website's forum "That's why I am the best anti-slice teacher of all time". www.brianmanzella.com/forum/golfing-discussions/14464-they-basically-all-same.htmlI would like to take up a challenge. Give me a list of causes of a slice, and I will prescribe a targeted cure for that slice problem - without using a twistaway maneuver. Then, one could rationally start to debate which represents the "best" slice cure remedy - a twistaway maneuver versus a targeted cure. Jeff.
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Post by gmbtempe on Dec 7, 2010 11:16:22 GMT -5
Brian M recommends a twistaway maneuver as a slice-curing phenomenon. He states on his website's forum "That's why I am the best anti-slice teacher of all time". www.brianmanzella.com/forum/golfing-discussions/14464-they-basically-all-same.htmlI would like to take up a challenge. Give me a list of causes of a slice, and I will prescribe a targeted cure for that slice problem - without using a twistaway maneuver. Then, one could rationally start to debate which represents the "best" slice cure remedy - a twistaway maneuver versus a targeted cure. Jeff. Jeff you may be able to but have you studied the twistaway maneuver to see its affect the golf swing, to verify it is not a very legitimate way to cure a slice?
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Post by youngsiwalker on Dec 7, 2010 11:25:40 GMT -5
Doesnt twist away open the club face ?
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Post by imperfectgolfer on Dec 7, 2010 11:55:12 GMT -5
Greg,
I am not disputing the fact that a twistaway maneuver can cure a slice problem. However, it disrupts the LAFW. I believe that it is always advantageous to keep the LAFW intact throughout the backswing/downswing, and I therefore believe that any slice cure action should not disrupt the LAFW. I also believe that I could recommend a targeted cure for any slice problem, so that it doesn't disrupt the LAFW - and then one could debate which of these cure-actions is mechanically/biomechanically "best".
Jeff.
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Post by richie3jack on Dec 7, 2010 16:27:58 GMT -5
Doesnt twist away open the club face ? No, it closes the face. It's not *that* radical because in MORAD they teach something similar in the backswing as they want the golfer to flatten out the left wrist on the backswing. Remember, it's part of the video called *Never* Slice Again. So the goal is to get golfers to never slice. They may develop a hook, but it's not a slice. 3JACK
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Post by ringer on Dec 7, 2010 18:47:07 GMT -5
Doesnt twist away open the club face ? No, it's the opposite direction... essentially hooding the face by arching the left wrist.
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Post by ringer on Dec 7, 2010 18:49:13 GMT -5
Greg, I am not disputing the fact that a twistaway maneuver can cure a slice problem. However, it disrupts the LAFW. I believe that it is always advantageous to keep the LAFW intact throughout the backswing/downswing, and I therefore believe that any slice cure action should not disrupt the LAFW. I also believe that I could recommend a targeted cure for any slice problem, so that it doesn't disrupt the LAFW - and then one could debate which of these cure-actions is mechanically/biomechanically "best". Jeff. Jeff, I question the legitimacy of a FLW through the entire downstroke. In fact I see a LOT of good players with an arched left wrist at the delivery position despite having a flw or even slightly bent left wrist during the rest of the swing.
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Post by ringer on Dec 7, 2010 18:53:35 GMT -5
It appears the BM does not understand what causes a slice. Its very simple... a golf ball with clockwise spin *as viewed from above* will slice. The Coanda effect causes a force on such a spinnings sphere perpendicular to its direction of flight. If you want to fix a slice then you must stop putting clockwise spin on the ball when viewed from above. So what causes clockwise spin when viewed from above? Grazing impact. When the path is outside-to-in and the face is open relative to the path conditions are right for clockwise spin inducing grazing impact. To fix a slice... stop doing whats causing you to coming over the top and get your face and path aligned. Usually that happens because the right side has come out too darn much, not because you didn't "twist away". Maybe twist-away is a "band aid" the gives short term relief... I doubt it though. Want to solve any problem you've got to get to root cause. What makes the ball go right? An open clubface. Whether it's open to the target or open relative to the player it's still open. All that the twist away move does is ensure you don't hit the inside half of the ball instead you hit the outside half. That was once thought taboo. The only way to say someone has hit the "inside" half of the ball with a "closed" clubface is if you change reference points in mid sentences. As in, "Inside half of the ball relative to the target and closed face relative to the player".
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Post by imperfectgolfer on Dec 7, 2010 19:39:34 GMT -5
Ringer - you wrote-: "Jeff, I question the legitimacy of a FLW through the entire downstroke. In fact I see a LOT of good players with an arched left wrist at the delivery position despite having a flw or even slightly bent left wrist during the rest of the swing."
Why would a golfer want to have a bent LW at a certain time point in his swing, and an arched LW at the delivery position - when he could have an intact LAFW and GLFW throughout the entire backswing/downswing? It's possible to manifest that variation, but I cannot understand why it would be better than having an intact LAFW throughout the swing.
Jeff.
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Post by imperfectgolfer on Dec 7, 2010 19:44:51 GMT -5
Ringer - you wrote-: "What makes the ball go right? An open clubface. Whether it's open to the target or open relative to the player it's still open. All that the twist away move does is ensure you don't hit the inside half of the ball instead you hit the outside half. That was once thought taboo."
I don't understand how a twistaway maneuver can cause a golfer to hit the outside half of the ball - if his clubhead path is in-to-out, or in-to-square-to-in.
Jeff.
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Post by ringer on Dec 7, 2010 19:54:44 GMT -5
Ringer - you wrote-: "Jeff, I question the legitimacy of a FLW through the entire downstroke. In fact I see a LOT of good players with an arched left wrist at the delivery position despite having a flw or even slightly bent left wrist during the rest of the swing." Why would a golfer want to have a bent LW at a certain time point in his swing, and an arched LW at the delivery position - when he could have an intact LAFW and GLFW throughout the entire backswing/downswing? It's possible to manifest that variation, but I cannot understand why it would be better than having an intact LAFW throughout the swing. Jeff. You are arguing whether or not it's better one way or not. I am simply making a statement of fact. I have seen GOOD players bend and arch their wrist during the swing. I am not questioning your belief that it is ideal, I am questioning the legitimacy that it is what happens with better players.
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Post by ringer on Dec 7, 2010 19:58:42 GMT -5
Ringer - you wrote-: "What makes the ball go right? An open clubface. Whether it's open to the target or open relative to the player it's still open. All that the twist away move does is ensure you don't hit the inside half of the ball instead you hit the outside half. That was once thought taboo." I don't understand how a twistaway maneuver can cause a golfer to hit the outside half of the ball - if his clubhead path is in-to-out, or in-to-square-to-in. Jeff. Because the ball is round and the clubface is flat. That may seem like an obvious statement but the only way to cause a flat surface to strike a round object at a different point around the ball is to rotate the angle of the flat surface. Think about it, whether you hit the ball on the toe end, heel end, or middle of the clubface the point on the ball where the clubface strikes it is the same. Moving the face around longitudinally does nothing for where the point of contact will be on the ball. You must rotate the face angle altogether to change the point on the ball that it is struck.
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Post by imperfectgolfer on Dec 7, 2010 20:54:00 GMT -5
Ringer,
I still don't understand how a twistaway moves the clubface angle to a different ball-striking orientation, so that it will hit the ball on the outside half.
Dustin Johnson has an arched left wrist at his end-backswing position - I don't believe that he hits the outside half of the ball. I think that he hits the back of the ball. If a golfer hits the outside half of the ball, then how can he hit it straight?
Jeff.
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Post by wedgey on Dec 7, 2010 21:52:20 GMT -5
Ringer, I still don't understand how a twistaway moves the clubface angle to a different ball-striking orientation, so that it will hit the ball on the outside half. Dustin Johnson has an arched left wrist at his end-backswing position - I don't believe that he hits the outside half of the ball. I think that he hits the back of the ball. If a golfer hits the outside half of the ball, then how can he hit it straight? Jeff. Straight left. Unless you have the d-plane working the ball back to the target but that wouldn't be straight would it? I think twistaway just squares the face up or even closes it. Then wouldn't you have to change your d.s. to match the new clubface alignment? I don't know Jeff what do you think?
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Post by imperfectgolfer on Dec 7, 2010 22:36:32 GMT -5
Wedgey,
You wrote-: "think twistaway just squares the face up or even closes it."
If you believe that, please provide a logical cause-and-effect explanation?
Jeff.
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