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Post by imperfectgolfer on May 19, 2012 9:50:01 GMT -5
See this BM-forum thread. www.brianmanzella.com/golfing-discussions/17179-hinge-action-rate-closure-what-you-should-do-clubface-p9-pic-19.htmldbl decided to calculate the degree of closing in post #182. This is his calculation. "So I decided let's see what the numbers might say 105 mph clubhead 5” before impact 105X5280X12 = 6652800 inches per hour =1848 inches per second so 5 inches in .0027056 seconds if 2000 deg/sec that is 5 degrees of closing." He has it all wrong!!! He is seemingly calculating angular velocity of the peripheral clubshaft (clubhead), and not axial rotation of the club around its longitudinal axis. Jeff.
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Post by imperfectgolfer on May 21, 2012 20:01:22 GMT -5
BM and jeffy have totally different perspectives on the same reality. Jeffy posted this photo in his forum. He then stated-: "This long-drive competitor's clubhead speed would "normally" produce a rate of closure of around 3,000 degrees per second, according to Rick Malm. Here he has reduced it to zero in the last frame before impact". In other words, jeffy is claiming that there is zero clubface closing through impact. BM then posts this modified image from the same golfer's swing action. How is BM calculating those ROC values? Is he talking about the ROC of the clubface relative to the clubhead arc (due to axial rotation of the clubshaft) - or is he simply measuring the rotation of the clubshaft/clubhead around an imaginary center-of-the-clubhead circle situated well above the grip end of the club while the clubhead moves along the circumference of the clubhead arc? Jeff.
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Post by tomdavis76 on May 28, 2012 22:25:15 GMT -5
BM and jeffy have totally different perspectives on the same reality. Jeffy posted this photo in his forum. He then stated-: "This long-drive competitor's clubhead speed would "normally" produce a rate of closure of around 3,000 degrees per second, according to Rick Malm. Here he has reduced it to zero in the last frame before impact". In other words, jeffy is claiming that there is zero clubface closing through impact. BM then posts this modified image from the same golfer's swing action. How is BM calculating those ROC values? Is he talking about the ROC of the clubface relative to the clubhead arc (due to axial rotation of the clubshaft) - or is he simply measuring the rotation of the clubshaft/clubhead around an imaginary center-of-the-clubhead circle situated well above the grip end of the club while the clubhead moves along the circumference of the clubhead arc? Jeff. Those aren't the same swings. TD
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Post by imperfectgolfer on Jul 25, 2012 22:14:25 GMT -5
Consider this Jeffy forum thread. jeffygolf.com/showthread.php?401-JB-Holmes-iron-quot-rate-of-closure-quot/page2cwdlaw223 wrote-: "The clubface is always trying to close down in the downswing". What is the basis for his belief, which I believe is unfounded. He then claimed-: "I'm not sure that a face can be programed to be "open" during impact". Why not? Then, when Jeffy stated that the clubface can be open in a chronic slicer, he retorted-: "Their path is screwed up!" Again, I think that's a BS claim that was not challenged by any forum member. A slice problem can be due to a path problem where the path is closed to the clubface orientation - for example, a clubface that is zeroed-out at impact with a clubhead path that is oriented to the left-of-the-target will produce a pull-slice shot. However, a slice problem can also be due to an open clubface orientation problem - for example, if one zeroes out the clubhead path at impact, but the clubface is open to the path, then the result will be a slice. Any golfer (who adopts a neutral grip) and who arrives at impact with a FLW that is facing to the right-of-the-target is going to have an open face at impact. That is an extremely common situation in golfers who fail to complete the release of PA#3 prior to impact. Jeff.
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Post by imperfectgolfer on Jul 26, 2012 18:50:24 GMT -5
Greg made the following comment in that Jeffy-forum thread-:
"Assuming centered hit if that ball starts right the face is open to the target line, period. Now we know if it curves left that the path was further to the right, but if it curves right then their path is left. If you have a slicer that starts it right, and it curves right its not just the path, its the face, and its open."
I agree.
cwdlaw223 then responded-: "What target line? It's about face vs. path. Not face vs. target line. The ball doesn't care about a target line."
I think that's a BS argument. The ball may not care about the target line and it mainly responds to the differential between the clubface orientation and the clubhead path when there is a level strike on the sweetspot. However, the golfer cares about the target! If a golfer successfully zeroes-out his path relative to the target (and presuming he achieves a level strike on the sweetspot) but the clubface is open to the target line (and therefore clubhead path) at impact, then the result will be a slice, and the cause will be an open clubface at impact.
cwdlaw223 also wrote-: "Target line is merely a frame of reference to get calculations."
Only a Trackman fanatic could write such BS! The golfer, who never uses a Trackman device, uses the target line as his reference point because the target is his goal. If he wants to hit a straight shot at the target, then he tries to zero-out the clubhead path and clubface orientation relative to the target at impact (presuming a level strike on the sweetspot).
Jeff.
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Post by gmbtempe on Jul 27, 2012 9:32:24 GMT -5
Well I questioned him on his logic but he said my comment was off the original topic, which I am going to assume he agrees with my point.
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