Post by imperfectgolfer on Dec 10, 2010 12:57:36 GMT -5
John Graham asked the following question at LB's forum.
See - www.lynnblakegolf.com/forum/thread7696.html
"I'm hoping this will help me understand Hinge Action/Motion (sorry, as I'm still working on my terminology).
If two players wind up at impact separation with the clubhead, face and shaft in the exact same alignments all at the same speed and hitting the ball in the same spot on the face with every other alignment matching with the only difference being that one player arrived there after a Horizontal Hinge action and other player arrived there after a Vertical Hinge Action.
Which shot has better compression and why?
I think they would be the same."
I don't understand how one can perform a hinging action pre-impact.
Consider a swinger's action where he uses a release swivel action to release PA#3. That process ends at impact (when the left arm/forearm is neutral). From impact onwards, a hinging action starts and ends at the end of the followthrough. Although a hinging action starts at impact, i believe that there can be no "effect" during the impact interval - which lasts 1/4,000 second.
Yoda wrote in that thread-: "Perfect compression means that the center of contact point between the ball and the club face remains the same through the impact interval. Which means that the ball adopts how the clubface rotates.
With a horizontal hinge the club and the ball rotates horizontally. The closing without layback. This is easy to see in 2-c-1 #2a, #2B, #3, the "swingers hinging". With a vertical hinge the club and the ball rotates vertically. Layback without closing. And that is illustrated in 2-c-2.
The axis of the hinge rotation is imposed on the ball. You can't have perfect ball compression otherwise."
That makes no sense to me. I know of no scientific evidence that the clubface rotates differently during the impact time interval of 1/4,000th of a second if one starts to use a VH action, rather than a HH action, at the time of impact. There is substantial scientific evidence to suggest that the clubhead is a "free moving" object during the impact interval, generating an impact force of ~1,400 lbs on the ball, and I know of no evidence that one can alter this fact by moving the hands/proximal shaft in any way during the impact interval.
Secondly, Yoda wrote the following-: "Nevermind . . . Let's leave the Land of Oz and head to the practice tee. Watch me hit two delicious little pitch shots. I'll hit both with the same descending blow (Clubshaft Control) and with an identical amount of force (Clubhead Control). Both shots will fly dead straight, but the second will fly distinctly higher than the first. Now . . .
Why would that be?
Answer:
Because, through Impact, my Left Wrist (Clubface Control) executed a totally different Motion. And that totally different Left Wrist Motion produced a totally different Clubface Motion. And that totally different Clubface Motion produced a totally different Separation alignment and Ball Response. Putting it simplistically . . .
Impact matters!"
I believe that there is no scientific evidence that a golfer can alter the left wrist motion during the impact interval - which lasts 1/4,000th of a second.
"Feel" and "real" are not the same thing. If any forum member can produce any scientific evidence to support Yoda's claim, I will be astonished. I will also study and critically analyse the supplied "evidence".
Jeff.
See - www.lynnblakegolf.com/forum/thread7696.html
"I'm hoping this will help me understand Hinge Action/Motion (sorry, as I'm still working on my terminology).
If two players wind up at impact separation with the clubhead, face and shaft in the exact same alignments all at the same speed and hitting the ball in the same spot on the face with every other alignment matching with the only difference being that one player arrived there after a Horizontal Hinge action and other player arrived there after a Vertical Hinge Action.
Which shot has better compression and why?
I think they would be the same."
I don't understand how one can perform a hinging action pre-impact.
Consider a swinger's action where he uses a release swivel action to release PA#3. That process ends at impact (when the left arm/forearm is neutral). From impact onwards, a hinging action starts and ends at the end of the followthrough. Although a hinging action starts at impact, i believe that there can be no "effect" during the impact interval - which lasts 1/4,000 second.
Yoda wrote in that thread-: "Perfect compression means that the center of contact point between the ball and the club face remains the same through the impact interval. Which means that the ball adopts how the clubface rotates.
With a horizontal hinge the club and the ball rotates horizontally. The closing without layback. This is easy to see in 2-c-1 #2a, #2B, #3, the "swingers hinging". With a vertical hinge the club and the ball rotates vertically. Layback without closing. And that is illustrated in 2-c-2.
The axis of the hinge rotation is imposed on the ball. You can't have perfect ball compression otherwise."
That makes no sense to me. I know of no scientific evidence that the clubface rotates differently during the impact time interval of 1/4,000th of a second if one starts to use a VH action, rather than a HH action, at the time of impact. There is substantial scientific evidence to suggest that the clubhead is a "free moving" object during the impact interval, generating an impact force of ~1,400 lbs on the ball, and I know of no evidence that one can alter this fact by moving the hands/proximal shaft in any way during the impact interval.
Secondly, Yoda wrote the following-: "Nevermind . . . Let's leave the Land of Oz and head to the practice tee. Watch me hit two delicious little pitch shots. I'll hit both with the same descending blow (Clubshaft Control) and with an identical amount of force (Clubhead Control). Both shots will fly dead straight, but the second will fly distinctly higher than the first. Now . . .
Why would that be?
Answer:
Because, through Impact, my Left Wrist (Clubface Control) executed a totally different Motion. And that totally different Left Wrist Motion produced a totally different Clubface Motion. And that totally different Clubface Motion produced a totally different Separation alignment and Ball Response. Putting it simplistically . . .
Impact matters!"
I believe that there is no scientific evidence that a golfer can alter the left wrist motion during the impact interval - which lasts 1/4,000th of a second.
"Feel" and "real" are not the same thing. If any forum member can produce any scientific evidence to support Yoda's claim, I will be astonished. I will also study and critically analyse the supplied "evidence".
Jeff.