Post by imperfectgolfer on Aug 3, 2012 17:55:00 GMT -5
See this BM-forum thread.
www.brianmanzella.com/golfing-discussions/17533-ernie-els-keeping-box.html
What is "keeping the box"?
Here is the relevant Ernie Els video.
I don't know why Burner made the comment "Obviously he does not know the first thing about "going normal!" because "keeping the box" has nothing to do with phase 3 of the downswing.
Kevin Shield amazingly stated-: "Sounds like out toss" and then in a later post "The out toss is designed to retain angles, not throw them away".
That's ridiculous because version a of BM's out-toss (which is the original version that occurs in phase 1 of the downswing) involves a deliberate straightening of the right arm and the unloading/release of the right elbow angle. It represents a release of the right elbow angle, and does not represent "keeping the angles" (maintenance of an intact power package - maintenance of the internal alignment of the RFFW relative to the LAFW).
Robbie then wrote-: "Seems to me the key statement that makes this "like an out toss" is that Ernie says he DOES not want it to get closer to him. The only way to "keep the angle" like Ernie says without it getting closer to you is to employ an out-toss (or a force along the shaft from clubhead down through the butt of the grip) whether he is aware of it or not, he's gotta be doing it.
The reason someone would jump to this "storage" idea is because he says "keep the angle." I know ERNIE isn't saying it but in my opinion I prefer to think about it as "creating an angle" and the best way I know to "create angle" is to apply a force along the shaft / get tangential / out-toss."
He also makes the mistake of stating that an out-toss "keeps the angle". It may "create an angle", but it is a different right elbow angle if the right elbow straightens.
Here is Hogan "keeping the box".
The power package consists of the right shoulder/right humerus (green color), RFFW (red color) and LAFW (yellow color). Note that Hogan keeps the power package intact between P4 and P5 - see images 1, 2 and 3.
Note that the right elbow straightens in images 4 and 5 and that occurs when the left arm moves further away from the chest wall due to the release of PA#4. When that PA#4 release happens causing the hands to move further away from the right shoulder, one can no longer "keep the box" (keep the angles).
KWBehrs then asked-: "Is the "out-toss" "designed to to retain the angle(s)" at the right elbow? Your words not mine. I think no. Could Brian please weigh-in on this?"
Let's see if BM can answer this question in a rational manner.
Jeff.
www.brianmanzella.com/golfing-discussions/17533-ernie-els-keeping-box.html
What is "keeping the box"?
Here is the relevant Ernie Els video.
I don't know why Burner made the comment "Obviously he does not know the first thing about "going normal!" because "keeping the box" has nothing to do with phase 3 of the downswing.
Kevin Shield amazingly stated-: "Sounds like out toss" and then in a later post "The out toss is designed to retain angles, not throw them away".
That's ridiculous because version a of BM's out-toss (which is the original version that occurs in phase 1 of the downswing) involves a deliberate straightening of the right arm and the unloading/release of the right elbow angle. It represents a release of the right elbow angle, and does not represent "keeping the angles" (maintenance of an intact power package - maintenance of the internal alignment of the RFFW relative to the LAFW).
Robbie then wrote-: "Seems to me the key statement that makes this "like an out toss" is that Ernie says he DOES not want it to get closer to him. The only way to "keep the angle" like Ernie says without it getting closer to you is to employ an out-toss (or a force along the shaft from clubhead down through the butt of the grip) whether he is aware of it or not, he's gotta be doing it.
The reason someone would jump to this "storage" idea is because he says "keep the angle." I know ERNIE isn't saying it but in my opinion I prefer to think about it as "creating an angle" and the best way I know to "create angle" is to apply a force along the shaft / get tangential / out-toss."
He also makes the mistake of stating that an out-toss "keeps the angle". It may "create an angle", but it is a different right elbow angle if the right elbow straightens.
Here is Hogan "keeping the box".
The power package consists of the right shoulder/right humerus (green color), RFFW (red color) and LAFW (yellow color). Note that Hogan keeps the power package intact between P4 and P5 - see images 1, 2 and 3.
Note that the right elbow straightens in images 4 and 5 and that occurs when the left arm moves further away from the chest wall due to the release of PA#4. When that PA#4 release happens causing the hands to move further away from the right shoulder, one can no longer "keep the box" (keep the angles).
KWBehrs then asked-: "Is the "out-toss" "designed to to retain the angle(s)" at the right elbow? Your words not mine. I think no. Could Brian please weigh-in on this?"
Let's see if BM can answer this question in a rational manner.
Jeff.