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Post by imperfectgolfer on Aug 6, 2012 0:21:28 GMT -5
I think that many golfers do not understand the mechanics/biomechanics of clubshaft steepening between P5.5 and P7. Here is Jeffy's image of Sergio Garcia. Jeffy made the following comment-: "How is Sergio anywhere like Hogan? If anyone is stuck, it is Sergio and he has to compensate for this off position." In what sense is Sergio stuck? He also believes that Sergio is "off". Off what? I presume that he means off-plane in the sense that an extension line drawn along the length of the clubshaft will point outside the ball-target line, which means that his clubshaft plane is shallow at that time point. Jeffy presumably thinks that it is a problem because he believes that Sergio has to steepen the shaft by impact. However, he doesn't take into account the fact that Segio's FLW/LAFW is going to rotate 90 degrees by impact, so that the left wrist uncocking planar motion is going to be rotating ~90 degrees between P5.5 and P7. I think that Sergio has zero problem steepening the clubshaft in a biomechanically natural manner between P5.5 and P7, and his degree of clubshaft steepness at P7 depends on his hand position and his accumulator #3 angle at impact. This sequence shows Sergio's body/arm/club movements between P5.5 and P7. I think that it is ridiculous to think of him being "stuck" or having difficulty steepening his clubshaft between P5.5 and P7. He has a superb late downswing body/arm/clubshaft motion. Jeff.
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Post by tomdavis76 on Aug 17, 2012 19:12:33 GMT -5
I think that many golfers do not understand the mechanics/biomechanics of clubshaft steepening between P5.5 and P7. Here is Jeffy's image of Sergio Garcia. Jeffy made the following comment-: "How is Sergio anywhere like Hogan? If anyone is stuck, it is Sergio and he has to compensate for this off position." Actually, that was Kelvin's picture and his comment. Believe whatever you want. Sergio doesn't think he can finish in the top-10 of a major. Doesn't sound like he is as confident of his "late downswing body/arm/clubshaft motion" as you are.
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Post by neckbone on Aug 19, 2012 19:22:32 GMT -5
"Believe whatever you want. Sergio doesn't think he can finish in the top-10 of a major. Doesn't sound like he is as confident of his "late downswing body/arm/clubshaft motion" as you are."
You'll find a lot of guys out there with great moves that don't have the confidence to win a major. It's not like you can step into contention at Augusta just by having a crapload of lateral bend.
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Post by imperfectgolfer on Aug 19, 2012 19:30:52 GMT -5
Jeffy's last post clearly reflects the difference between Jeffy and me - when it comes to establishing cause-and-effect relationships in the arena of golf swing mechanics/biomechanics.
Let's presume that Sergio actually stated that he was unlikely to be in the top-10 of a major tournament. Why would he make that statement? Does it have some causal relationship to his perception of the mechanics/biomechanics of his full golf swing action; or has it something to do with his short game; or putting; or mental attitude; or "something else". Why would Jeffy arbitrarily establish a causal relationship between Sergio's statement and his late downswing action?
Jeffy has a marked propensity to consider a golfer's PGA tour stats as being causally related to the soundness of his golf swing mechanics/biomechanics. I would never make that type of inference - because there are so many confounding variables in play. I study golf swings in isolation when studying golf swing mechanics/biomechanics, and I am not in the slightest bit interested in comparative PGA tour FIR/GIR/driving accuracy figures.
Jeff.
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Post by imperfectgolfer on Aug 20, 2012 13:00:20 GMT -5
Dexterous,
From your quoted statements, it seems like Sergio believes that he is presently not good enough to win an major, but it doesn't mean that there is anything biomechanically wrong with his mid-late downswing action.
Jeff.
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Post by imperfectgolfer on Aug 20, 2012 18:02:25 GMT -5
Dexterous - I agree that a lack of confidence in one's winning ability can negatively affect one's swing, but I was only contesting Jeffy inaccurate claim that Sergio has a tendency to get "stuck" and that he has a biomechanical problem steepening his clubshaft between P5.5 and P7 because of his shallow clubshaft angle at P5.5.
Jeff.
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Post by tomdavis76 on Aug 20, 2012 20:37:05 GMT -5
Dexterous - I agree that a lack of confidence in one's winning ability can negatively affect one's swing, but I was only contesting Jeffy inaccurate claim that Sergio has a tendency to get "stuck" and that he has a biomechanical problem steepening his clubshaft between P5.5 and P7 because of his shallow clubshaft angle at P5.5. Jeff. Sergio's first shot on the Sunday coverage was his typical miss with a longish iron from that overly laid off position: a toey, weak push/fade. Can't always get the clubface on the ball, though this year is better than some others. Nice to see him win again.
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Post by tomdavis76 on Aug 22, 2012 17:10:55 GMT -5
Here are Richie's latest stats for Sergio, updated to include his win on Monday: Needless to say, in reality, Sergio is far from a "great ballkstriker who just can't putt". That is simply a myth and is the opposite of the truth. Sergio is, in fact, a decent driver, a mediocre iron player, a superb wedge player (top 10%) and an excellent putter (top 15%). For someone who has been hyped for so-long for his ballstriking, I suppose the realization that he is just an ordinary ballstriker has to be a hard pill to swallow for Sergio.
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Post by imperfectgolfer on Aug 22, 2012 17:26:23 GMT -5
It is hilarious to see Jeffy label Sergio as merely being an ordinary ball-striker. I remember him quoting Jim Hardy (when Jim Hardy was his swing guru) that Sergio was the world's greatest ball striker. That Jeffy has reversed his position with respect to Sergio is not surprising. In his Jim Hardy days, he lauded the swings of Tom Pernice and Scott McCarron and now he uses the adjective "abysmal" to describe their swings.
Jeff.
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Post by tomdavis76 on Aug 22, 2012 18:11:44 GMT -5
It is hilarious to see Jeffy label Sergio as merely being an ordinary ball-striker. I remember him quoting Jim Hardy (when Jim Hardy was his swing guru) that Sergio was the world's greatest ball striker. That Jeffy has reversed his position with respect to Sergio is not surprising. In his Jim Hardy days, he lauded the swings of Tom Pernice and Scott McCarron and now he uses the adjective "abysmal" to describe their swings. Jeff. Why is it "hilarious"? "Accurate" is a more apt characterization. Things change. Up to 2005, Sergio had great stats: in 2000 3rd in total driving, 2001 1st in total driving, 2004 4th in GIRs, 2005 1st in GIRs. Then things started to deteriorate. When the facts change, my opinion changes. I guess you still think his swing is "superb". McCarron's iron play has deteriorated a lot in recent years, but he still is a pretty good driver (at least in 2011 when he ranked 39th in Richie's Advanced Total Driver). Pernice I never was in love with.
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Post by imperfectgolfer on Aug 22, 2012 20:04:47 GMT -5
Jeffy,
You wrote-: "Things change. Up to 2005, Sergio had great stats: in 2000 3rd in total driving, 2001 1st in total driving, 2004 4th in GIRs, 2005 1st in GIRs. Then things started to deteriorate. When the facts change, my opinion changes. I guess you still think his swing is "superb".
If you actually believe that Sergio's full golf swing is biomechanically/mechanically different today then it was in 2000-2005, then please present your "evidence" - in the form of videos and in the form of detailed explanations of the biomechanical/mechanical differences between his "old" swing and his "present-day" swing. In the absence of any "evidence", your personal opinion (based on those relative stats that include the swing performance of other golfers) has no merit.
I would also like to see you demonstrate in what way Scott McCarron's iron swing has deteriorated from a biomechanical/mechanical perspective. His GIR stats may be less optimum, but is that due to biomechanical/mechanical changes in his swing action? If you believe that fact, then please provide the "evidence".
Jeff.
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Post by tomdavis76 on Aug 22, 2012 21:50:39 GMT -5
Jeffy, You wrote-: " Things change. Up to 2005, Sergio had great stats: in 2000 3rd in total driving, 2001 1st in total driving, 2004 4th in GIRs, 2005 1st in GIRs. Then things started to deteriorate. When the facts change, my opinion changes. I guess you still think his swing is "superb". If you actually believe that Sergio's full golf swing is biomechanically/mechanically different today then it was in 2000-2005, then please present your "evidence" - in the form of videos and in the form of detailed explanations of the biomechanical/mechanical differences between his "old" swing and his "present-day" swing. In the absence of any "evidence", your personal opinion (based on those relative stats that include the swing performance of other golfers) has no merit. I have no idea whether his mechanics have changed or not. And I don't care. Today he is a mediocre ballstriker and the reason is obvious: he gets too far underplane late in the downswing. Don't hold your breath.
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Post by imperfectgolfer on Aug 22, 2012 22:41:46 GMT -5
Jeffy wrote-: "Today he is a mediocre ballstriker and the reason is obvious: he gets too far underplane late in the downswing."
Where is the "evidence"?
If he getting too underplane today, then it means that his swing biomechanics/mechanics must have changed. Where is the "evidence" that he is routinely getting more underplane today - compared to the years 2000-2005?
Jeff.
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Post by imperfectgolfer on Aug 22, 2012 23:25:09 GMT -5
Here are Sergio swings from recent years.
Where is the "evidence" that he is too underplane in the late downswing?
Jeff.
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Post by tomdavis76 on Aug 23, 2012 19:13:27 GMT -5
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