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Post by imperfectgolfer on Nov 26, 2012 8:14:47 GMT -5
See this BM-forum thread. www.brianmanzella.com/golfing-discussions/17848-anyone-see-anything.htmlThe golfer states that he has an "extension problem" (whatever that means - presumably early loss of the spinal bend inclination angle). This is BM's advice. " Basically, your problem is in the mid-downswing. You have a very inadequate tumble, and you have no choice but to not rotate." Do you agree that BM is giving correct advice? Jeff.
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Post by imperfectgolfer on Nov 26, 2012 11:24:46 GMT -5
Here is my opinion. This golfer has a major goat-humping problem. Note how he "stands-up" through impact as a result of his goat-humping pelvic motion. Note that his clubshaft is on-plane at the end of his early downswing - image 2 - and I cannot fathom why BM recommends a "tumbling action" (which is designed to correct an underplane clubshaft). See Q&A number 24 in my downswing chapter for a discussion about the utility of a "tumbling action"- perfectgolfswingreview.net/downswing.htmThis golfer needs to learn how to perform a left hip clearing action (like Hogan) - which is a "rotation-in-a barrel" type of rotary pelvic motion. Bradley Keegan performs this type of rotary pelvic motion very well. I have drawn a red line against the back of his right buttocks when he is at the end-backswing position (image 1), and that red line represents the tush line. Note how he starts the downswing by pulling his left hip joint back towards the tush line - image 2. Note how he keeps his right buttocks against the tush line during this early downswing transition phase, and he doesn't prematurely allow his right buttocks to move away from the tush line. Image 3 - note that the right buttocks is now starting to move away from the tush line after a momentary delay in right hip joint movement at the start of the downswing. However, note that the left hip joint has moved backwards (towards the tush line) more than the right hip joint has moved outwards (away from the tush line). Note how his left buttocks gets pulled back against the tush line in his mid-downswing (image 4) and note how he acquires an open pelvis and slightly open shoulders at impact (image 5). Note that he maintains his bent-over spinal inclination angle throughout his downswing action, and note that he doesn't have a jamming problem - i) he doesn't have a problem getting his right shoulder to rotate in an unimpeded manner under his chin and ii) he doesn't have a problem creating room for his right elbow to bypass his right hip area in an unimpeded manner. Jeff.
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Post by imperfectgolfer on Nov 26, 2012 22:54:33 GMT -5
BM wrote-: " No way do you have to start from scratch!
You just need to learn to tumble better."Crazy advice! This golfer has no room in front of his torso during the late downswing for his arms/club. "Tumbling" and any other advice about downswing arm/hand motions only relate to the arena of the arm/hand action. A golfer has to always solve three problems in a full golf swing in order to execute a golf swing well - i) have an optimized pivot action; ii) have an optimised arm/hand action; and iii) make sure that that i) and ii) are perfectly synchronised. This golfer has to solve problem number i) and he he is getting zero useful advice from BM or the BM groupies. Jeff. p.s. Burner seemingly recognizes the problem when he wrote-: " He's already "shanking the arse" of that Goat". However, that remark didn't register in that forum. Burner should simply post a link to this photo sequence without making any commentary, or he should send PokerLife the photo-link via a private email message.
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Post by imperfectgolfer on Nov 27, 2012 21:26:11 GMT -5
Pokerlife wrote in the BM-forum thread - " Watched a slo mo video of Luke Donald and worked on my takeaway for about 3 hours tonight . Mine was absolutely horrible I mean really look at it . I pick the club up and lift it way outside . This new take away and backswing I worked on really feels good. I have that feeling that it's really good lol! It changed the whole perspective of the swing for me!
Will get some video at range tomorrow and hopefully ill leave my goat there." He then wrote later-: " Yuck , takeaway didn't solve anything . Hit a lot of hozzel rockets and bannanna slices
Where do I sign up for tumbling 101". I feel sorry for the guy! He is lost when it comes to understanding golf swing biomechanics. He was working on his takeaway, when he should be working on refashioning his pivot action. He should learn how to perform a rotary (rotating-in-a-barrel) pivot motion as an independent action - and he doesn't need a golf club to practice the correct pivot motion using a simple drill. He should fold his arms across the front of his chest and stand with his butt about 6" from a wall. He should then rotate his right butt back until it touches the wall (tush line). Then he should perform a "left hip clearing action" while trying to keep his right butt against the wall (tush line), and rotate his left butt back to touch the wall before he allows the right butt to move far away from the wall. Most importantly, he must make sure that he maintains his spinal bend inclination angle during the drill. He needs to ingrain the type of rotary pelvic motion performed by Bradley Keegan (see previous post). See this Shawn Clements video. Here is a capture image. Note how Shawn Clement pulls his left butt back against the glass wall (tush line) while maintaining his spinal bend inclination angle. How can he think of working on "tumbling" his arms/club down in front of his body when he has no room in front of his body in his late downswing due to his "standing-up" phenomenon? Jeff.
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Post by mchepp on Nov 28, 2012 16:09:46 GMT -5
Jeff,
Do you think this golfer would benefit from learning a pitch elbow? Seems to me he has a massive stall and flip and does that because he is way out of sequence. KB executes the pitch elbow extremely well and I think this aids in keeping the tush line.
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Post by imperfectgolfer on Nov 28, 2012 17:00:38 GMT -5
I think that he does need to need to learn how to use a pitch elbow motion, but he must first pivot correctly so that he can create space in front of his right hip for his pitch elbow. He has no space in front of his torso in his late downswing because he "stands-up" through impact and loses his spine bend inclination angle.
Jeff.
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Post by tomdavis76 on Nov 28, 2012 19:47:48 GMT -5
If you don't have a lot of right side lateral bend, you WILL goat-hump. The guy's torso is absolutely vertical. Tumble, reverse tumble, stand on your head, none of that stuff is going to make a damn bit of difference. Right side lateral, lumbar lordosis, and left pelvic tilt will solve a ton of his problems. And pitch elbow (what Kelvin calls the right elbow move) will also help, but, since that will open the face, he'll need some way to offset it, like a strong grip.
Keegan is a great model, BTW. A Gold Medal swing!
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Post by imperfectgolfer on Nov 28, 2012 20:46:22 GMT -5
Jeffy, I think that one only needs a lot of lateral spine bend if one has a bent-over posture like Bradley Keegan and if one gets one's club to a shallow impact plane (hand or elbow plane, rather than the TSP). If one stands more erect like Phil Mickelson, one can still perform the "left hip clearing action" correctly, maintain one's spinal bend inclination angle and avoid "standing-up" through impact - without a lot of lateral bend. I have drawn a red line against the back of his rear (left) buttocks when Phil Mickelson (a lefty) is at his end-backswing position (image 1) and that red line represents the tush line. Image 2 shows his early downswing pelvic action - note how much he has pulled his lead (right) pelvis back towards the tush line while still keeping his rear (left) buttocks against the tush line. Image 3 shows him in his mid-downswing and one can see that his rear buttocks has pulled slightly away from the tush line, while his lead buttocks is now abutting against the tush line. Image 4 shows him at impact with an open pelvis and with his lead buttocks against the tush line. Note that Phil Mickelson's rear (left) knee only moves outwards towards the ball-target line in his late downswing (as his pelvis becomes more open to the target). In a right-handed golfer, the right knee should only move outwards (towards the ball-target line) in the late downswing when the pelvis rotates to an open position by impact. During this time period, the right heel should also lift up passively as the pelvis rotates to an open position by impact. The amount that the right knee kicks-outwards, and the amount that the right heel lifts up, mainly depends on the degree of openess of the pelvis at impact (and also partly depends on the stance width and the golfer's flexibility). A flexible golfer who has a narrow stance may not need to lift his right heel off the ground much in the late downswing when the pelvis becomes more open to the target. Note that Phil Mickelson maintains his spinal bend inclination angle and avoids "standing-up" through impact - without a lot of lateral spine bend. Phil is using a rotary pelvic motion (like Bradley Keegan) and he is not goat-humping. Jeff.
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