Post by imperfectgolfer on Jan 29, 2013 12:00:12 GMT -5
Consider this ridiculous question asked by Mike Finney in this BM-forum thread.
www.brianmanzella.com/golfing-discussions/18043-question-about-tour-players-kinematic-sequence.html
MF asked-: "What percentage of tour players (who have been captured by AMM3D) have proximal to distal" sequencing? That is, the rotational velocities of the following body parts peak in order - Pelvis-Thorax-Arm-Club?""
Here are some of the answers-:
Jared - 5%.
cwdlaw223 - 36.9%
Natep - 88%.
I think that only a fool would find it useful to answer that irrelevant question.
What's the relevance?
It will depend on whether the golfer uses an active pivot action or a reactive pivot action. It will depend on whether the golfer has an OTT move swing pattern where the golfer's upper torso starts first and outraces the pelvis earlier in the downswing.
It depends on the length of the backswing eg. John Daly takes his club well back behind his back, and he has to get his upper torso/left arm to move first to get to the P5 position where the arms are closely connected to the rotating torso, and the power package is in its traditional location.
In image 1 he is at his end-backswing position, with the club behind his back.
Image 2 shows him at the P4.5 position with the power package loaded - note how much his upper torso rotated and his left arm moved to get to that loaded position, where he can then slot the power package down to the P5.5 position (image 3). It would not surprise me if his kinematic sequence is different to a golfer who has a much shorter backswing action where the left arm doesn't get back further than the 10 o'clock position and where the total upper torso rotation is less than 90 degrees.
This same scenario applies to Jamie Sadlowski, who shoulders rotate 166 degrees by his end-backswing position (according to Motion Reality). Think of how much his shoulders have to rotate to get to the loaded power package scenario at P4.5/P5.
Look at image 4 when he he has a loaded power package that he is about to slot during the mid-downswing between P4.5 and P5.5 - he obviously had to rotate his shoulders a lot to get to that position where his shoulders are rotated <90 degrees (relative to the ball-target line). That means that he was already rotating his thorax/shoulders ultra-fast between P4 and P4.5. It is therefore not surprising that his thorax rotational speed may peak before his pelvic rotational speed - as can be seen in this next TPI graph.
The standard kinematic sequence is on the left - one can see that the thorax peak happens well after the pelvic peak. JS's graph is on the right - and the thorax peak is fractionally ahead of the pelvic peak.
So what if JS's pattern is different to the standard TPI pattern? What insights into golf swing mechanics does one gain by this type of inane question re: the kinematic sequence?
I won't even discuss the fact that left arm movements have to sometimes precede upper torso rotational movements - but it is obvious that Jim Furyk is going to have to drop his hands vertically down very fast in the early downswing to get his power package into the "correct" slottable position by P5.
Another factor is whether a golfer has a lot of dynamic torso-pelvic separation in their early downswing - like Bubba Watson.
Look at how much BW rotates his pelvis between image 1 and image 2 - while keeping his shoulders back. He will obviously generate a different kinematic sequence than a golfer who has zero dynamic torso-pelvic separation in the early downswing, and who turns the pelvis and upper torso together at the start of the downswing.
Jeff.
www.brianmanzella.com/golfing-discussions/18043-question-about-tour-players-kinematic-sequence.html
MF asked-: "What percentage of tour players (who have been captured by AMM3D) have proximal to distal" sequencing? That is, the rotational velocities of the following body parts peak in order - Pelvis-Thorax-Arm-Club?""
Here are some of the answers-:
Jared - 5%.
cwdlaw223 - 36.9%
Natep - 88%.
I think that only a fool would find it useful to answer that irrelevant question.
What's the relevance?
It will depend on whether the golfer uses an active pivot action or a reactive pivot action. It will depend on whether the golfer has an OTT move swing pattern where the golfer's upper torso starts first and outraces the pelvis earlier in the downswing.
It depends on the length of the backswing eg. John Daly takes his club well back behind his back, and he has to get his upper torso/left arm to move first to get to the P5 position where the arms are closely connected to the rotating torso, and the power package is in its traditional location.
In image 1 he is at his end-backswing position, with the club behind his back.
Image 2 shows him at the P4.5 position with the power package loaded - note how much his upper torso rotated and his left arm moved to get to that loaded position, where he can then slot the power package down to the P5.5 position (image 3). It would not surprise me if his kinematic sequence is different to a golfer who has a much shorter backswing action where the left arm doesn't get back further than the 10 o'clock position and where the total upper torso rotation is less than 90 degrees.
This same scenario applies to Jamie Sadlowski, who shoulders rotate 166 degrees by his end-backswing position (according to Motion Reality). Think of how much his shoulders have to rotate to get to the loaded power package scenario at P4.5/P5.
Look at image 4 when he he has a loaded power package that he is about to slot during the mid-downswing between P4.5 and P5.5 - he obviously had to rotate his shoulders a lot to get to that position where his shoulders are rotated <90 degrees (relative to the ball-target line). That means that he was already rotating his thorax/shoulders ultra-fast between P4 and P4.5. It is therefore not surprising that his thorax rotational speed may peak before his pelvic rotational speed - as can be seen in this next TPI graph.
The standard kinematic sequence is on the left - one can see that the thorax peak happens well after the pelvic peak. JS's graph is on the right - and the thorax peak is fractionally ahead of the pelvic peak.
So what if JS's pattern is different to the standard TPI pattern? What insights into golf swing mechanics does one gain by this type of inane question re: the kinematic sequence?
I won't even discuss the fact that left arm movements have to sometimes precede upper torso rotational movements - but it is obvious that Jim Furyk is going to have to drop his hands vertically down very fast in the early downswing to get his power package into the "correct" slottable position by P5.
Another factor is whether a golfer has a lot of dynamic torso-pelvic separation in their early downswing - like Bubba Watson.
Look at how much BW rotates his pelvis between image 1 and image 2 - while keeping his shoulders back. He will obviously generate a different kinematic sequence than a golfer who has zero dynamic torso-pelvic separation in the early downswing, and who turns the pelvis and upper torso together at the start of the downswing.
Jeff.