|
Post by dubiousgolfer on Apr 11, 2019 5:20:25 GMT -5
Dr Mann
What do you think of the 2 more recent AMG 'you tube' videos below?
Isn't the first video similar to what Mike Malaska advocates regarding the right palm facing the ground from about P6?
For the video below , I don't understand how they can start quantifying the amount of the right arm bend . Surely there are other biomechanical factors involved , such as one's ability to keep the left arm extended (not hyperextended). Could variations in body sizes (ie. width of shoulders, forearm and upper arm lengths) also affect the amount of right arm bend?
Isn't the amount of right arm bend also dependent on how successful the golfer is swinging 'on plane' (ie. tracing the 'Swing Plane Line') while keeping the 'Flying Wedges' intact? Plus also his ability to load and efficiently release his power accumulators (especially PA2) in the downswing?
Regards DB
|
|
|
Post by imperfectgolfer on Apr 11, 2019 10:02:47 GMT -5
Dr Mann What do you think of the 2 more recent AMG 'you tube' videos below? Isn't the first video similar to what Mike Malaska advocates regarding the right palm facing the ground from about P6? For the video below , I don't understand how they can start quantifying the amount of the right arm bend . Surely there are other biomechanical factors involved , such as one's ability to keep the left arm extended (not hyperextended). Could variations in body sizes (ie. width of shoulders, forearm and upper arm lengths) also affect the amount of right arm bend? Isn't the amount of right arm bend also dependent on how successful the golfer is swinging 'on plane' (ie. tracing the 'Swing Plane Line') while keeping the 'Flying Wedges' intact? Plus also his ability to load and efficiently release his power accumulators (especially PA2) in the downswing? Regards DB I think that both AMG instructors are TGM-illiterate and also highly ignorant regarding optimum golf swing biomechanics. Consider this capture image from the first video. Mike Granato stated earlier in the video that if a golfer shallows the clubshaft during the early downswing by getting the right palm to face upwards that it will result in a wide open clubface at P6, which he wrongly believes will result in a slice. To prevent that "open clubface at P6" scenario, Shaun Webb recommends getting the right palm to face groundwards earlier, and he wrongly claims that it will close the clubface. Look at that image where Shaun's right palm is facing groundwards. Note that he is demonstrating a punch elbow motion (where the hands are ahead of the right elbow) and not a pitch elbow motion. I think that a punch elbow motion predisposes to a clubshaft-steepening motion ("tumble action") that can cause an out-to-in clubhead path between P6 and impact, and it does not produce a gamma torquing phenomenon that twists the clubshaft counterclockwise in a clubface-closing direction.
I think that most male pro golfers use a pitch elbow motion with respect to their right arm, which means that their right palm faces skywards at P5.5. The amount of right forearm supination needed to keep their right palm facing skywards depends on their clubshaft shallowness at P5.5.
So, Sergio Garcia, who has a very shallow clubshaft at P5.5, will need to have more right forearm supination - as seen in the following capture image.
Note that Sergio's right palm is facing skywards at P5.5, and the degree depends on the clubshaft alignment relative to the ground. The more horizontal (shallow) the clubshaft is at P5.5, the more the right palm must face skywards - because the right palm must optimally be parallel to the intact LAFW throughout the entire downswing.
Here are capture images of Adam Scott, Justin Rose and Rory McIlroy at their P5.5 position. Their right palm is also facing skywards - but less so compared to Sergio Garcia because they not shallow their clubshaft as much between P4 and P5.5.
All of these pro golfers are using a pitch elbow motion, and not a punch elbow motion during their early-mid downswing. Regarding the 2nd video, MG and SW simply demonstrate that they are clueless about TGM. If they understood the role of the RFFW, then they would realize that its function is to efficiently support the intact LAFW throughout the backswing and downswing motions. The degree of right elbow bend in the backswing depends on the steepness of the intact LAFW's path and whether the golfer uses a RFT rather than an one-piece takeaway. During the downswing's P4 => P6 time period, the degree of right elbow bend will depend on whether the golfer shallows the clubshaft and by how much he shallows the clubshaft. It also depends on whether he uses a very active right arm adduction maneuver to produce an exaggerated right elbow pitch motion - as seen in Dustin Johnson's early-mid downswing - which has the biomechanical advantage of allowing a golfer to maintain maximum clubhead lag for slightly longer.
During the P6 => impact time period, the degree of right elbow bend depends on the position of the right shoulder socket - and skilled pro golfers drive their right shoulder downwplane during the later downswing so that they do not prematurely "run-out-of-right arm". The closer the right shoulder is positioned relative to the target at impact, the easier it is for the golfer to maintain a bent right arm and bent right wrist at impact - as seen in the next capture images of Hunter Mahan's late downswing.
Note how much Hunter Mahan's right shoulder moves downplane between P6 (image 1) and impact (image 4) thereby avoiding a "running-out-of-right arm" scenario.
Jeff.
|
|
|
Post by dubiousgolfer on Apr 11, 2019 17:23:01 GMT -5
Many thanks again Dr Mann
DB
|
|
|
Post by imperfectgolfer on Apr 12, 2019 0:36:16 GMT -5
Many thanks again Dr Mann DB It is amazing how many golf instructors also teach the golf instructional "idea" of getting the right palm to face groundwards during the early-mid downswing. Fortunately, there is at least one golf instructor who gets his "facts" correct. If one has a neutral left hand grip and an intact LAFW at P5.5, then the clubface will be straight-in-line (and therefore neutral) relative to the watchface area of the left lower forearm - even though it will open to the clubhead arc. Russell Heritage understands that one can easily close the clubface between P5.5 and impact by using a PA#3 release action (which is primarily due to left forearm supination), and that one should not be afraid of having a supinated right forearm at the P5.5 position (which does not automatically predispose to a slice if one uses a PA#3 release action in the later downswing). Jeff.
|
|
|
Post by bogeyman on May 31, 2019 20:39:25 GMT -5
New here and trying to get acquainted with the TGM terminology. I have to applaud Dr Mann in the research. Difficult to grasp at the first pass but if you reduce the reading to smaller bits and go through the pieces several times, they all seem to make sense.
I have a question, if you start to supinate the left forearm to close the face to the plane and maintain the LFFW while the right forearm remains supinated as it is described by the pro, then wouldn’t the left arm and the right arm be working in opposite directions? Wouldn’t the right hand split apart from the left like wringing a towel where the left hand goes counter clockwise and the right working clockwise?
Would this be part of the drive hold release?
Thanks in advance for any answers.
|
|
|
Post by imperfectgolfer on May 31, 2019 21:47:55 GMT -5
New here and trying to get acquainted with the TGM terminology. I have to applaud Dr Mann in the research. Difficult to grasp at the first pass but if you reduce the reading to smaller bits and go through the pieces several times, they all seem to make sense. I have a question, if you start to supinate the left forearm to close the face to the plane and maintain the LFFW while the right forearm remains supinated as it is described by the pro, then wouldn’t the left arm and the right arm be working in opposite directions? Wouldn’t the right hand split apart from the left like wringing a towel where the left hand goes counter clockwise and the right working clockwise? Would this be part of the drive hold release? Thanks in advance for any answers. You asked the following question-: " I have a question, if you start to supinate the left forearm to close the face to the plane and maintain the LFFW while the right forearm remains supinated as it is described by the pro, then wouldn’t the left arm and the right arm be working in opposite directions?" A golfer needs to supinate the left forearm in the late downswing in order to square the clubface relative to the clubhead arc, and in TGM terminology this phenomenon is referred to as the release of PA#3. The purpose of squaring the clubface to the clubhead arc by impact is to acquire both a square clubhead path and square clubface at impact, which is needed to hit a straight shot. One does not need to square the clubface relative to the swingplane between P4 and P6, and the clubface-closing (due to left forearm supination) happens after P6. During this P6 => impact time period, the right forearm must move from being frankly supinated at P6 to being neutral by impact - so it is moving in a pronatory direction (which means that the right forearm and left forearm are rotating in the same counterclockwise direction. Here is an example - featuring Dustin Johnson.
Image 3 is at P6 and image 6 is at impact.
Note that the back of his left hand is facing the camera at P6, but facing the target at impact and that is due to left forearm supination.
Note that his right forearm is frankly supinated at P6 with his right palm under the club handle. Note that he has pronated his right forearm between P6 and impact so that his right palm faces the target at impact.
Jeff.
|
|
|
Post by dubiousgolfer on Jun 14, 2019 8:33:04 GMT -5
Have Athlectic Motion Golf changed their instruction regarding the right wrist compared to their original videos? It seems as if they have accepted the concept of an intact LFFW using a coat hanger drill.
DG
|
|
|
Post by imperfectgolfer on Jun 14, 2019 16:15:05 GMT -5
Have Athlectic Motion Golf changed their instruction regarding the right wrist compared to their original videos? It seems as if they have accepted the concept of an intact LFFW using a coat hanger drill. DG The coat hanger drill definitely teaches a golfer how to maintain an intact LAFW/GFLW. It is very interesting to watch Shaun Webb at the 12:11 minute time point of the video when he reaches the P5.5/P6 position (delivery position) - note that his right palm is under the club handle and it is parallel to the plane of the intact LAFW. That means that he is no longer teaching a left forearm supination action in the P5 => P6 time period, that will "tumble" the club (in a clubshaft steepening manner) where the right palm gets more on top of the club handle. I wonder if they fully understand how this present video's golf instructional teaching (which I can readily endorse) is incompatible with their previous video's golf instructional teaching. Jeff.
|
|