|
Post by dubiousgolfer on May 26, 2019 9:05:17 GMT -5
Dr Mann I was looking at your you tube video last night "What effect does left wrist bowing, or cupping, have on the clubface?" I've been thinking a bit more about left wrist 'Palmar Flexion /Cupping' and what actions a golfer could take to get back on the SWP. Especially if they originally had an intact LFFW at the beginning of their backswing and were tracking the SWP until they started bowing/cupping their left wrist. I drew some diagrams below trying to identify the actions and wondering if they make any sense. I am assuming that a bowed left wrist will break the intact LFFW and point the clubshaft 'inside' the SWP while a cupped one will point 'outside' the SWP. If I've identified some actions correctly (and that is excluding any actions done by other parts of the body that could secondarily assist), it seems that bowing/cupping the left wrist and maybe even retaining it through to impact, creates lots of extra 'move corrections' that are required to get the club back 'On Plane' before impact. So could we then make a judgement that golfers who break the intact flying wedges and not tracking the SWP are actually creating 'swing errors'? DG
|
|
|
Post by imperfectgolfer on May 28, 2019 9:31:43 GMT -5
Dr Mann I was looking at your you tube video last night "What effect does left wrist bowing, or cupping, have on the clubface?" I've been thinking a bit more about left wrist 'Palmar Flexion /Cupping' and what actions a golfer could take to get back on the SWP. Especially if they originally had an intact LFFW at the beginning of their backswing and were tracking the SWP until they started bowing/cupping their left wrist. I drew some diagrams below trying to identify the actions and wondering if they make any sense. I am assuming that a bowed left wrist will break the intact LFFW and point the clubshaft 'inside' the SWP while a cupped one will point 'outside' the SWP. If I've identified some actions correctly (and that is excluding any actions done by other parts of the body that could secondarily assist), it seems that bowing/cupping the left wrist and maybe even retaining it through to impact, creates lots of extra 'move corrections' that are required to get the club back 'On Plane' before impact. So could we then make a judgement that golfers who break the intact flying wedges and not tracking the SWP are actually creating 'swing errors'? DG I don't think that your reasoning makes sense. First of all, you are overly focused on the "idea" that the clubshaft must be perfectly on-plane. The TGM concept of being on-plane is only a guideline and it is difficult to be perfectly on-plane. So, it is readily possible that one could be a few inches off-plane (where the laser light at the end of the club that is nearest the ground points slightly inside-or-outside the ball-target line) during the early downswing, and that would be acceptable. Secondly, moving the left wrist into palmar flexion (bowing) or extension (cupping) at P5 probably only moves the laser light off-plane by an insignificant amount - presuming that the left wrist is first neutral at P5. If the left wrist bowing/cupping first starts at P4, then it is even possible to move the left arm downplane in such a manner that the clubshaft could still be on-plane between P4 and P5.5 if the degree of bowing/cupping does not change during that time period. However, the major problem will start as one bypasses P6 and the back of the left hand starts to face more towards the target. If the left wrist is bowed, it would be perfectly acceptable because bowing only causes angulation of the clubshaft backwards away from the target and the golfer can easily adjust to this scenario by adding a little more left forearm supination to ensure that there is less forward shaft lean at impact. By contrast, if the left wrist is cupped between P6 and impact, then the golfer would have the clubhead ahead of the hands in a pre-flipped condition during that time period and that is totally unacceptable. From my perspective, it is only acceptable to perform the downswing with a neutral left wrist (GFLW) or a bowed left wrist. Bowing the left wrist does cause the clubshaft to approach impact between P6 and P7 from a slightly underplane alignment, but that is not really a problem. If a golfer has a cupped left wrist between P4 and P5.5, then he must convert to having a neutral or bowed left wrist between P5.5 and P6.5 - like Ben Hogan in the following animated gif. Note that the process of converting from a cupped to a bowed left wrist between P5.5 and P6.2 causes Hogan's clubshaft to move underplane (see DTL images), but that is not a problem because the human brain can mentally adjust to that scenario. Jeff.
|
|
|
Post by dubiousgolfer on May 28, 2019 17:42:22 GMT -5
Many thanks for your reply Dr Mann
I always thought being 'On Plane' by tracing the SPL was defined as an 'Imperative' by Homer Kelley (maybe I have taken that too literally).
DG
|
|
|
Post by imperfectgolfer on May 28, 2019 21:47:31 GMT -5
Many thanks for your reply Dr Mann I always thought being 'On Plane' by tracing the SPL was defined as an 'Imperative' by Homer Kelley (maybe I have taken that too literally). DG Homer Kelley did list a "SPL" as an imperative and he also listed a "FLW" and a "clubhead lag pressure point" as imperatives. However, none of those 3 listed imperatives are really obligatory - as evidenced by the "real life" golf swings of many skilled PGA tour golfers. Many pro golfers have a bowed left wrist during their entire downswing and early followthrough and they therefore do not trace a SPL where the clubshaft is always on-plane. Also, there is substantial evidence that the TGM concept of "sustaining lag" all the way into impact, which implies a handle-dragging technique, is not obligatory. I much prefer to think of the idea of swinging the intact LAFW through impact in a drive-hold manner as being a more useful conceptual idea. Jeff.
|
|
|
Post by dubiousgolfer on May 29, 2019 7:29:23 GMT -5
Many thanks Dr Mann but now I'm getting confused about the below definitions:
1. LAFW = GFLW + LFFW (in line with upper arm) 2. DH- Hand Release = Above from P7-P7.2 3. Roller subtype of non-DH hand release (P7-P7.2) = LFFW + GFLW (not in line with upper arm) 4. Flipping subtype of non-DH hand release (P7-P7.2) = NON GFLW (which means non intact LFFW and LAFW)
When you say "Many pro golfers have a bowed left wrist during their entire downswing and early followthrough" doesn't that clash with definition 4 above because they do not have a GFLW?
I can easily understand intuitively why retaining a bowed left wrist through impact from P7-P7.2 can constitute a drive-hold action but it doesn't seem to fit with the definitions above.
Should there also be another subtype definition of a DH-hand release like below?
5. 'Palmar Flexed' (and very unlikely cupped) DH-Hand Release (P7-P7.2) = Unchanging Non 'GFLW/LFFW/LAFW' relationship between P7 and P7.2
DG
|
|
|
Post by imperfectgolfer on May 29, 2019 8:51:05 GMT -5
Many thanks Dr Mann but now I'm getting confused about the below definitions: 1. LAFW = GFLW + LFFW (in line with upper arm) 2. DH- Hand Release = Above from P7-P7.2 3. Roller subtype of non-DH hand release (P7-P7.2) = LFFW + GFLW (not in line with upper arm) 4. Flipping subtype of non-DH hand release (P7-P7.2) = NON GFLW (which means non intact LFFW and LAFW) When you say "Many pro golfers have a bowed left wrist during their entire downswing and early followthrough" doesn't that clash with definition 4 above because they do not have a GFLW? I can easily understand intuitively why retaining a bowed left wrist through impact from P7-P7.2 can constitute a drive-hold action but it doesn't seem to fit with the definitions above. Should there also be another subtype definition of a DH-hand release like below? 5. 'Palmar Flexed' (and very unlikely cupped) DH-Hand Release (P7-P7.2) = Unchanging Non 'GFLW/LFFW/LAFW' relationship between P7 and P7.2 DG A DH-hand release action - defined as a situation where the clubshaft does not bypass the left arm between P7 and P7.2 - can occur with i) an intact LAFW/GFLW or ii) a non-intact LAFW with a bowed left wrist of variable degree. A DH hand release action between P7 and P7.2 cannot occur with an extended (flipped) left wrist or significantly supinated left forearm (if the accumulator #3 angle is moderate or large). If I more correctly define a DH-hand release action as a situation where the clubshaft does not bypass the left arm between P7 and P7.2 and where the clubsface remains square to the clubhead arc between P7 and P7.2, then it cannot occur if the left wrist extends or if the left forearm significantly supinates (even if the accumulator #3 angle is small). However, it can occur with an intact LAFW/GFLW or a non-intact LAFW with a bowed left wrist. Jeff.
|
|
|
Post by dubiousgolfer on May 29, 2019 9:24:08 GMT -5
Many thanks again Dr Mann
|
|