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Post by imperfectgolfer on Feb 1, 2022 13:50:28 GMT -5
Here is BBG Dr Kwon video for the LPGA golfer , concerning the right elbow movement. Why isn't Dr Kwon looking at the right hip spinning for the possible cause of the right elbow getting stuck by the side of the torso? DG I disagree with Kwon, who claims that this student-golfer has her right elbow stuck at P6. Here are her capture images of her downswing action. Image 1 is near her P4 position. I have drawn a red line alongside the back of her trail buttocks and it represents the tush line. Image 2 is at P4.8 - note that she has completed her hip-squaring phase while keeping her trail buttock abutted against the tush line. There is no evidence of a hip spinning pelvic motion. Image 3 is at P5.5. Note that her pelvis is slightly open. Note that he has fully adducted her trail arm and her trail elbow is situated alongside her trail side shirt seam area.
However, that does not mean that her trail elbow is being blocked by her trail pelvis - note how she continues to rotate her pelvis very actively into impact (image 4) and she allows her trail elbow to remain alongside her trail hip area between P5.5 => P7.
Image 5 is at P7.5 and she is using a CF-arm release action with no evidence of any swing impedance of her swing action secondary to a "blocked trail elbow" phenomenon. Here is Sergio Garcia's golf swing action. Note that his trail elbow is alongside his trail shirt seam area at P5.5 (image 3 in the upper capture images and image 1 in the lower capture images) due to an early/assertive trail upper arm adduction maneuver, but he is obviously not "blocked". Here is a video of Ben Hogan's downswing action. Note that his trail arm is fully adducted by P5.5 and his trail elbow lies alongside his trail shirt seam, and Hogan's downswing action is obviously not being blocked secondary to a "blocked trail elbow" scenario. Jeff.
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Post by dubiousgolfer on Feb 1, 2022 18:03:03 GMT -5
Many thanks Dr Mann.
DG
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Post by dubiousgolfer on Feb 2, 2022 12:06:34 GMT -5
I'm trying to understand why Dr Kwon regards this image below as a swing inefficiency. If the clubhead and clubshaft are optimally swinging on the functional swing plane (FSP) , then I am assuming the 'Mid-Hand-Point' (MHP) is also moving within this functional swing plane and that the plane base directions of the 'MHP motion plane' and 'Clubhead motion plane' will align (whether they be parallel to the ball-target line or left/right of the ball-target line). If the MHP plane base direction is not aligned with the clubhead plane base direction, are we to assume that the MHP (and therefore club shaft and clubhead) are not moving within a theoretically optimal FSP? DG
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Post by imperfectgolfer on Feb 2, 2022 12:20:09 GMT -5
I'm trying to understand why Dr Kwon regards this image below as a swing inefficiency. If the clubhead and clubshaft are optimally swinging on the functional swing plane (FSP) , then I am assuming the 'Mid-Hand-Point' (MHP) is also moving within this functional swing plane and that the plane base directions of the 'MHP motion plane' and 'Clubhead motion plane' will align (whether they be parallel to the ball-target line or left/right of the ball-target line). If the MHP plane base direction is not aligned with the clubhead plane base direction, are we to assume that the MHP (and therefore club shaft and clubhead) are not moving within a theoretically optimal FSP? DG When in his video did Kwon discuss this image? Jeff.
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Post by dubiousgolfer on Feb 2, 2022 12:56:46 GMT -5
Dr Mann
From 1:40 - 3:04 in that BBG 'GET UNSTUCK' video .
DG
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Post by imperfectgolfer on Feb 2, 2022 13:45:58 GMT -5
Dr Mann From 1:40 - 3:04 in that BBG 'GET UNSTUCK' video . DG I have no idea what Kwon is talking about! He states that the hand arc path is moving inwards, but he is seemingly referring to the post-impact hand arc path. By contrast, he seems to be implying that the clubhead path is being simultaneously directed more outwards, but then he is seemingly referring to the pre-impact clubhead path. Also, he seemingly claims that this "disconnect" between the hand arc path and clubhead path has something to do with a "stuck trail elbow" scenario, and I cannot fathom how he makes that causal connection! Jeff.
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Post by dubiousgolfer on Feb 2, 2022 20:50:11 GMT -5
Here is another BBG video where Dr Kwon provides some more general explanation regarding swing plane . At 2:12 , for an outwards tendency swing plane , I think he believes that if the right elbow is adducted too quickly to the side of the golfers torso in the downswing it is suggestive of an arm driven swing where the golfer will have to 'flip roll their hands' in some manipulative fashion through impact (he doesn't provide any detailed biomechanics to explain this cause and effect). If that is the case , is that LPGA hopeful (Kennedy) flip-rolling through impact ? Dr Kwon implied in the previous video that she adducts her trail elbow forcefully plus the birds-eye image shows the clubhead swing plane pointing outwards to the right of the ball-target line. DG PS. Why does Dr Kwon say that the swing plane (I think he means the functional swing plane) is on average going through the mid-section of the torso? That at set-up a line drawn from the ball to the trail elbow provides some indication of this functional swing plane. Phil Mickelson uses the turned shoulder plane in his swing action and its nowhere near his mid-section . Does this mean he has a swing fault?
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Post by imperfectgolfer on Feb 3, 2022 10:51:41 GMT -5
DG, I think that it is wrongheaded to evaluate a golfer's clubshaft at address to assess whether they are on the correct swingplane because different pro golfers have different patterns as to whether they have their lead arm more vertical, or more extended outwards, at address; and they have different degrees of radial deviation of the lead wrist at address. For most pro golfers, they have their clubshaft on, or near, the TSP at P4 and they then shallow the clubshaft to the elbow plane by P6. So, Kwon is correct to state that the functional swingplane for most pro golfers will be on the elbow plane, which goes through the mid-torso (when viewed from DTL). However, some pro golfers (eg. Phil Mickelson, Jamie Sadlowski) prefer not to shallow their clubshaft down to the elbow plane by P6 and they come down the TSP while other pro golfers shallow their clubshaft down to (or near) the hand plane by P6 (eg. Sergio Garcia, Ben Hogan, Hunter Mahan). The difference is mainly due to the degree, and speed, of trail upper arm adduction happening between P4 => P6 and I believe that there is no "fixed" rule regarding the optimum pattern of clubshaft shallowing that should happen between P4 => P6.
I agree with Kwon that if you adduct the trail arm very fast at the start of the downswing that it is possible to trap the two arms behind the rotating torso, which means that one has to flip the arms around the body in an "in-to-out" manner in the later downswing in order to get the arms more in front of the torso by impact. To avoid that swing fault, a golfer should control his speed of trail arm adduction between P4 => P6 so that the arms can remain more in front of the continuously rotating torso during the entire P4 => P7 time period - as seen in the following capture images of Annika Sorenstam's ball drill.
Note that the yellow ball, which is wedged between her two elbows, remains in front of her sternum throughout the entire downswing and early followthrough.
Jeff.
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Post by imperfectgolfer on Feb 4, 2022 13:25:43 GMT -5
Here is another Kwon-teaching video where he is instructing a 73 year-old golfer, who is the same age as me, and that golfer suffers from the same spinal inflexibility issues as me in the sense that he cannot generate a significant amount of torso-pelvic separation. I think that Kwon's generic golf instructional approach does not work for this elderly, inflexible golfer, and I believe that Kwon initially made his golf swing action worse by going through his regular golf instructional routine.
Kwon teaches a very active backswing action where he wants a golfer to really wind-up his torso rotation so that he can get to P4 with a large amount of upper torso rotation and a finite, but lesser amount, of pelvic rotation that will produce a large amount of static X-factor stretch by P4. Kwon even wants a golfer to have a degree of reverse pivoting motion of the upper torso between P3.5 => P4 and he likes to see the golfer stretch-out his upper torso and maintain his torso length. This golf instructional approach can work well for a young/flexible golfer, but it can create problems in an elderly golfer who cannot easily generate a significant amount of torso-pelvic separation by P4 and who cannot start rotating the pelvis counterclockwise between P3.5 => P4 while the upper torso is still rotating clockwise.
I think that when Kwon instructed this elderly golfer to get an even larger shoulder turn by P4, and allow his upper torso to simultaneously tilt targetwards in a reverse pivoting manner, that he was causing that golfer to over-stretch the mid-upper thoracic spine area of his upper torso (see 1:08 minute time point of the video onwards). That caused his mid-upper thoracic spine area of his upper torso to rebound immediately at the start of the transition to the downswing, which Kwon obviously didn't want to see happen. Then, Kwon told that golfer to "pause" at the top of his backswing to give him time to start his pivot motion with a lower body (pelvic) counterclockwise rotation (see 1:12 minute time point of the video). Kwon does not routinely teach a "pause" moment at P4, but he was forced to recommend that "pause" moment to avoid a disordered kinematic sequence due to over-stretching of the mid-upper thoracic spine. Watch the last few minutes of the video as the lesson was being completed, when Kwon complimented that elderly golfer on swinging in a smoother and a more controlled manner (see 1:17 minute time point). You will note that he only rotated his shoulders between 70-80 degrees by P4, and he therefore did not over-stretch his mid-upper thoracic spine area. That's what I would have recommended in the first place if I was instructing this elderly golfer, and I suspect that Kwon is not sufficiently cognizant of how certain spinal inflexibility issues require a senior golfer to modify his golf swing action.
Jeff.
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Post by dubiousgolfer on May 31, 2023 6:34:14 GMT -5
Looks like Brendon is using the intact flying wedge concept through impact. Not sure whether his interpretation matches what Dr Kwon was demonstrating because DK was not really providing detail of what the wrists do from P6.8 -P7.2.
DG
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Post by imperfectgolfer on May 31, 2023 22:02:35 GMT -5
Looks like Brendon is using the intact flying wedge concept through impact. Not sure whether his interpretation matches what Dr Kwon was demonstrating because DK was not really providing detail of what the wrists do from P6.8 -P7.2. DG I have no indication that Kwon or Brendon is promoting a DH-hand release action through the early followthrough time period because they do not specifically state/infer that the lead wrist should remain geometrically flat between P7 => P7.2+. They only state that the accumulator #3 angle should not be too small at impact and they prefer a moderate-sized accumulator #3 angle at impact - because it would result in more clubhead travel along the clubhead path for each degree of left forearm supination between P7 => P7.2+ and that should result in a lower clubface ROC through impact. Jeff.
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