janik
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Posts: 143
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Post by janik on Jan 27, 2023 16:23:04 GMT -5
Hi folks, Interested to hear opinions on the similarities and differences between a tennis back-hand stroke and the golf swing. For a reference video, see ex pro tennis player interview with Martin Hall on YouTube; youtu.be/Kd6UgkRTDkoAlthough, I don’t want a review of this video. I have a specific question regarding the “feel” of a tennis stroke vs the swing of a golf club: In tennis, or any action that utilises a relatively short-shafted implement (even one’s hand in a slap), one has the natural sense that the speed of the implement is directly proportional to the speed of the moving hand(s). One would never “flip” or “flick” a tennis racket. They would focus more on moving their forearm/hand structure through space continuously. If one takes a golf club and grips it down very near the club head, say 3-4 inches away from it, one can really get a sense that one must speed the entire unit through impact. Stalling the entire unit and allowing the club head to flip past feels like a futile or weak method. So my query is this; when using a long shafted golf club, are we poor amateur golfers playing poorly because we somehow don’t intuitively prevent letting the club head pass by without the hand/arm structure driving the motion? Are we lazy in our approach to the golf swing vs say a tennis stoke?! Many thanks Janik
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Post by imperfectgolfer on Jan 27, 2023 19:24:19 GMT -5
Hi folks, Interested to hear opinions on the similarities and differences between a tennis back-hand stroke and the golf swing. For a reference video, see ex pro tennis player interview with Martin Hall on YouTube; youtu.be/Kd6UgkRTDkoAlthough, I don’t want a review of this video. I have a specific question regarding the “feel” of a tennis stroke vs the swing of a golf club: In tennis, or any action that utilises a relatively short-shafted implement (even one’s hand in a slap), one has the natural sense that the speed of the implement is directly proportional to the speed of the moving hand(s). One would never “flip” or “flick” a tennis racket. They would focus more on moving their forearm/hand structure through space continuously. If one takes a golf club and grips it down very near the club head, say 3-4 inches away from it, one can really get a sense that one must speed the entire unit through impact. Stalling the entire unit and allowing the club head to flip past feels like a futile or weak method. So my query is this; when using a long shafted golf club, are we poor amateur golfers playing poorly because we somehow don’t intuitively prevent letting the club head pass by without the hand/arm structure driving the motion? Are we lazy in our approach to the golf swing vs say a tennis stoke?! Many thanks Janik I think that a beginner amateur golfer does not intuitively slow down the lead arm in the later downswing so that the PA#2 release process can be perfectly completed by impact (which does not involve allowing the clubhead to bypass the hands at impact).
Here is the kinematic sequence of multiple pro golfers.
Note that they all slow down their lead arm speed (to a variable degree) in their later downswing when PA#2 is being released.
Jeff.
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janik
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Posts: 143
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Post by janik on Jan 27, 2023 19:29:27 GMT -5
Thanks for the reply, Dr. Mann.
However, I would contend that most, if not ALL mid-high handicap golfers have the club head passing their hands in and around impact. They would not do so with a tennis racket. I am not discussing the releasing of PA2, more so the flip type release of many poorer players.
Cheers Janik
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Post by imperfectgolfer on Jan 27, 2023 19:40:52 GMT -5
Thanks for the reply, Dr. Mann. However, I would contend that most, if not ALL mid-high handicap golfers have the club head passing their hands in and around impact. They would not do so with a tennis racket. I am not discussing the releasing of PA2, more so the flip type release of many poorer players. Cheers Janik The cause of flipping through impact is much more complex. Many factors can contribute to that phenomenon in a golfer versus a single-handed backhanded tennis player. Most importantly is the presence of a trail arm that can be pushing the club handle (below the coupling point) targetwards in an amateur golfer (using a pull-push pattern) while a backhanded tennis player is more likely to use a TGM type of swinging action. Another factor is the longer length of the club and longer length of the clubhead arc between P6 => P7, which requires perfect timing. A third factor that promotes flipping is hitting at the ball and trying to time the motion of the clubhead instead of swinging an intact LFFW (left arm + clubshaft that are straight-line-aligned) through impact as a unitary structure (which is much easier to do when swinging a tennis racquet backhanded).
Jeff.
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janik
Full Member
Posts: 143
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Post by janik on Jan 27, 2023 19:44:34 GMT -5
Thanks, Dr. Mann, I think you have explained the sensation more technically than I could have ie it is more natural, for some reason, to allow a longer shafted implement flip past one’s hands.
The question I now have is; as a recreational tennis player, I very much know the sensation of executing a double handed backhand stroke. It is an application of force using a United structure of arms/hands/implement (I’m not claiming to be good at tennis however!). In your opinion, is it useful for one to transfer that same sensation into a golf swing ie do not flip the weighted club head through, but rather attempt to drive the entire united structure through the ball?
I think your previous post says yes, but I am seeking absolute clarification as I have a pure and true understanding of what is required in executing a tennis stroke.
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Post by imperfectgolfer on Jan 27, 2023 20:02:36 GMT -5
Thanks, Dr. Mann, I think you have explained the sensation more technically than I could have ie it is more natural, for some reason, to allow a longer shafted implement flip past one’s hands. The question I now have is; as a recreational tennis player, I very much know the sensation of executing a double handed backhand stroke. It is an application of force using a United structure of arms/hands/implement (I’m not claiming to be good at tennis however!). In your opinion, is it useful for one to transfer that same sensation into a golf swing ie do not flip the weighted club head through, but rather attempt to drive the entire united structure through the ball? I think your previous post says yes, but I am seeking absolute clarification as I have a pure and true understanding of what is required in executing a tennis stroke. That double-handed DH-hand release action would be perfect, but very difficult to achieve because one has to avoid "running-out-of-trail arm" between P7 => P7.4 and where one has to maintain a bent-back trail wrist all the way to P7.4. That's why less flexible golfers try to improve their DH-hand release action by controlling the angular velocity of the lead arm between P7 => P7.4 so that it perfectly matches the acquired angular velocity of the club (= keeping the LFFW alignment intact between P7 => P7.4). That goal is much easier to achieve if one has first maintained an intact LFFW alignment (= unitary structure of the left forearm + clubshaft) all the way between P4 => P7. Jeff.
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janik
Full Member
Posts: 143
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Post by janik on Jan 27, 2023 20:09:18 GMT -5
Thank you, Dr. Mann.
It is good to know that my idea of tennis vs. golf is in some way validated by your good self. I am blessed with flexibility (I can pass any test put to me) so that is never my issue - I always am instead trying to find the right “intent”. I am playing 9 holes tomorrow; I will try to play golf more like I play tennis and let you know the outcome.
Cheers Janik
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