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Post by dubiousgolfer on Feb 16, 2023 11:30:14 GMT -5
Dr Mann
What do you think about Dr Noel Rousseau's opinions?
DG
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Post by playing18 on Feb 16, 2023 14:48:51 GMT -5
Hi DG, I assume Dr. Mann is working on his latest AMG video analysis, so I'll chip in a few ideas.
It's the body you take to any activity that matters most. A strong and mobile athletic body is going to handle the stress of a given golf swing better than an unfit, stiff, non-bendable body. Soft tissue injury (muscle, connective tissue, bone) always comes down to the interaction of two important variables: load and capacity. When the load exerted on the body is greater than the tissue's capacity, it will always result in an injury. When a person's capacity is greater than the load, it will never result in an injury.
In this video, NR says a golf injury (I assume a back injury) takes 7 years to develop. Of course, this depends on the person and the capacity/load equation. If one's intervertebral spinal discs (IVDs) are stronger than the load, they will never begin or undergo a chronic injury process. However, when the load is slightly above its capacity, the injury process can be progressive across a long time period with the IVD injury remaining non-symptomatic. At some point, however, a given swing could cause the IVD to finally crack/rupture/herniate and create overt symptoms. Incidentally, the outer part of the IVD (annulus fibrosis) is built like an armored truck. That the IVD eventually cracks indicates the IVD was subjected to enormous and repeated stress. The inherently tough IVDs are built to easily last 100+ years, unless they are mistreated in some way.
On the other hand, if an unfit person takes up golf with already compromised lumbar IVDs (due to poor posture, repetitive lumbar flexion under load, etc.) it could lead to a serious IVD injury after only a few rounds of golf. Again, it depends on the person's IVD status and the capacity/load equation.
PGA player, Will Zalatoris, at age of 26, is already dealing with a lumbar IDV injury. His previous swing technique and swing speed (load) explains why. If he had used a less stressful swing technique or swung those 10,000+ swings at a slower speed, his lumbar IVDs would be fine. To hopefully resolve his injury, he reportedly worked with TPI's Greg Rose who identified a safer swing for him to perform that creates less IVD stress yet is still powerful enough to allow him to compete on the PGA tour.
However, WZ is in a tough spot. He now has one or more compromised lumbar IVDs which means his IVD capacity is inherently lower. The number one correlate with a future injury is a previous injury. It’s easy to see why when one considers the capacity/load equation. Injured tissue may not be able to regain its former capacity depending on the injury. And, what caused the injury in the first place (for example, the same stressful movement pattern) is often repeated in the future.
WZ must be vigilant to remain pain-free. He can’t return to old swing habits once the IVD injury symptoms subside. He should never assume he is “healed” and “injury-free.” He should never play though pain. He must keep his spine-protecting skeletal muscles in tip-top shape to help increase his capacity, and not allow any muscle-improving exercise to cause additional IVD stress or injury. Basically, he is on a tight rope without a lot of wiggle room.
Hopefully, WZ can beat the odds and not let his previous injury become a reason for a future injury. Time will tell.
In this video, NR is correct in saying that golf swing rotation should come mostly from the hip joints and thoracic spine, and not from the lumbar spine. He also infers that when the hip joints and t-spine are compromised or inflexible, the player will attempt to “find” rotation in other ways. This is true. However, NR seems a bit uninformed when he suggests that the lumbar can increase its rotation to make up for tight hip joints and an immobile t-spine. The lumbar spine has a limited rotation capacity and can’t rotate that much even when it is forced. A player might try to force the lumbar spine to rotate, but that doesn’t mean it will. Of course, forcing the lumbar to rotate to its maximum small limit under load may lead to injury. This is a problem and doing so won’t provide meaningful spinal rotation anyway.
In the other video examples, NR suggests that certain movements (spinal extension and spinal side-bend) can increase the risk of back injury. Again, this depends on the player’s capacity and the swing’s load. Spinal extension and side-bend are normal spinal motion and should occur in one’s daily life, either through normal daily activities or through purposeful exercise. The problem is when the player’s capacity is too low, or the swing load is too high. This is what leads to injury.
Recently, I played with a couple who were told by their chiropractor that the golf swing is inherently harmful/dangerous. Without context, this is silly. The golf swing is a wonderful whole-body movement that can be part of a healthful movement practice. The human body is designed to move, and to move a lot. The golf swing is only a problem when a person’s capacity is too low, or the swing’s load is too high. To label the golf swing as harmful with no context is short-sighted and biased.
This is my take. I’m sure Dr. Mann can provide additional insight on this topic.
Jim – playing18
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Post by dubiousgolfer on Feb 16, 2023 16:55:44 GMT -5
Many thanks Jim - Also, interesting about WZ and hope he doesn't cause further damage to himself in the future.
DG
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Post by imperfectgolfer on Feb 16, 2023 23:24:01 GMT -5
DG, I agree with Jim. In particular, I agree with the following statements-: "In this video, NR is correct in saying that golf swing rotation should come mostly from the hip joints and thoracic spine, and not from the lumbar spine. He also infers that when the hip joints and t-spine are compromised or inflexible, the player will attempt to “find” rotation in other ways. This is true. However, NR seems a bit uninformed when he suggests that the lumbar can increase its rotation to make up for tight hip joints and an immobile t-spine. The lumbar spine has a limited rotation capacity and can’t rotate that much even when it is forced. A player might try to force the lumbar spine to rotate, but that doesn’t mean it will. Of course, forcing the lumbar to rotate to its maximum small limit under load may lead to injury. This is a problem and doing so won’t provide meaningful spinal rotation anyway."
I suspect that the greatest rotary torque being applied to the lumbar spine happens between P4 => P5.5 if the golfer tries to develop too much torso-pelvic separation - like Will Zalatoris.
I suspect that the lumbar spine is not being excessively torqued between P7 => P9 due to a lot of C-shaped curvature of the spine because a pro golfer is usually in a condition of posterior pelvic tilt and most of the curvature of the spine involves the lower-mid thoracic spine and not the lumbar spine.
Jeff.
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