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Post by imperfectgolfer on Jan 29, 2024 12:22:49 GMT -5
I don't agree with all of Russell heritage opinions, so I will only be recommending some of his golf instructional videos. This video first focuses on how best to perform a DH-hand release action through impact where RH emphasizes rotating the body open through impact so that one can get both arms straight in the followthrough and where one does not perform a roller subtype of non-DH hand release action through impact. Note how the lead arm does not stall through impact, which would cause that alignment stick to hit the side of his body. However, I think that the most important part of this video happens between the 2:38 - 3:18 minute time point of the video. RH states that one should actively adduct the trail upper arm towards the side of the body during the P4 => P6 time period using a pitch elbow motion and when one gets to the P6 position where the clubshaft is parallel to the ground and also parallel to the ball-target line, note that his trail forearm is supinated with his trail palm facing the sky (eg. at the 3:10 minute moment in the video). Note that his hands are positioned just outside his trail thigh. From that desirable P6 position, one should keep the trail forearm continuously supinated between P6 => P7 and avoid any tendency to pronate the trail forearm or rotate the trail humerus internally too fast. That will allow the alignment stick to maintain its width between P6 => P7 (note that the alignment stick is positioned well away from his body at the 3:17 minute time point of the video when he has reached his impact position.)
Note that RH's trail arm is fully adducted against the side of his trail torso at P6 (image 1) and that his trail forearm is fully supinated.
Note how RH keeps his trail forearm continuously supinated during his entire late downswing as he moves towards impact.
Note how he opens his pelvis/upper torso between P6 => P7+.
What he is describing is the exact opposite of what Mike Malaska teaches - MM teaches a punch elbow motion where the trail upper arm internally rotates during the P4 => P6 position (as demonstrated in the following video) Here are capture images from the video.
Note how MM is internally rotating his trail upper arm and where his trail elbow is positioned well away from the trail side of his torso. Note that he is using a punch elbow motion of the trail arm and that his trail forearm is pronated and his trail palm is facing the ground. Can you imagine how the alignment stick (if he placed one like RR) would hit his torso before he even gets to his P6 position.
Jeff.
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janik
Full Member
Posts: 143
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Post by janik on Jan 29, 2024 15:25:34 GMT -5
Hi Dr. Mann,
I have a question regarding the trail forearm supination between P6 and P7.
One can easily see the trail palm is facing the ball target line / skywards at P6. However, it is clear the trail palm is facing the target at P7. How can this be achieved if the trail forearm does not pronate approaching impact as you have suggested?
Many thanks. Janik
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Post by imperfectgolfer on Jan 29, 2024 17:23:27 GMT -5
Hi Dr. Mann, I have a question regarding the trail forearm supination between P6 and P7. One can easily see the trail palm is facing the ball target line / skywards at P6. However, it is clear the trail palm is facing the target at P7. How can this be achieved if the trail forearm does not pronate approaching impact as you have suggested? Many thanks. Janik Look at his trail upper arm and note that it is facing the ball-target line at P6 and then angled ~45 degrees toward the targetward at impact so it is more internally rotated, while at the same time the trail forearm is slightly less supinated at P7 compared to P6 and the trail wrist is slightly less extended, and the end-result of these 3 biomechanical actions is that the trail palm is still partially under the club handle at P7 but partially facing the target at P7. You can clearly see it happening in Patrick Rodgers late downswing between P6 => P7. Jeff.
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janik
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Posts: 143
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Post by janik on Jan 29, 2024 18:28:25 GMT -5
Many thanks, Dr. Mann.
So would it be fair to say that the majority of the trail hand rotation targetwards is caused by the upper arm rotation?
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Post by imperfectgolfer on Jan 29, 2024 21:19:52 GMT -5
Many thanks, Dr. Mann. So would it be fair to say that the majority of the trail hand rotation targetwards is caused by the upper arm rotation? No. The rotation of the trail humerus angles the trail forearm so that the trail palm gets closer to the impact position. However, there has to be a counterclockwise rotation of the trail palm and it happens if the trail forearm becomes less supinated and if the trail wrist undergoes a counterclockwise circumductory roll motion when it partially straightens. Consider again Patrick Rodgers downswing. Image 1 is at P6.5 and image 2 is at P7. Note how much his lead lower forearm's radial bone and the back of the lead hand rotates counterclockwise between P6.5 => P7 due to a lead forearm supinatory motion (representing the release of PA#3). Note that his trail palm is facing partially towards right field at P6.5. because the clubshaft is angled back about 45 degrees. At impact, the clubshaft has become roughly perpendicular to the ball-target line and the clubshaft has also rotated counterclockwise around its longitudinal axis due to the lead forearm supinatory motion. The trail palm must rotate by the same amount as the lead hand and it happens due to i) decreasing trail forearm supination + ii) a counterclockwise circumductory roll motion of the trail hand as the trail wrist partially straightens.
The identical phenomenon is happening in Justin Thomas late downswing. Image 2 is at P6.5 and image 3 is at impact. Note how much his lead lower forearm's radial bone and the back of the lead hand rotates counterclockwise between P6.5 => P7 due to a lead forearm supinatory motion (representing the release of PA#3). Note that his trail palm is facing partially towards right field at P6.5. because the clubshaft is angled back about 45 degrees. At impact, the clubshaft has become roughly perpendicular to the ball-target line and the clubshaft has also rotated counterclockwise around its longitudinal axis due to the lead forearm supinatory motion. The trail palm must rotate by the same amount as the lead hand and it happens due to i) decreasing trail forearm supination + ii) a counterclockwise circumductory roll motion of the trail hand as the trail wrist partially straightens.
There is a subtle difference in their degree of trail forearm supination existing at both P6.5 and P7. Note that JT's trail forearm is slightly more supinated at both those positions because he uses a strong trail hand grip while PR uses a weak trail hand grip; and that also explains why JT's trail palm is still more under the club handle at P7 while PR's trail palm is more behind the club handle at P7.
Jeff.
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janik
Full Member
Posts: 143
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Post by janik on Jan 30, 2024 7:22:07 GMT -5
Many thanks, Dr. Mann, that is crystal clear.
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Post by imperfectgolfer on Jan 31, 2024 12:28:49 GMT -5
Here is another RH golf instructional video where he focuses on the golf instructional idea of "shaking hands with the target". I don't disagree with his opinion of performing a pitch elbow motion of the trail arm during the P4 => P6 time period by performing an active trail upper arm adduction move. I also don't disagree with the idea of straightening the trail arm through impact to allow the "trail hand to eventually shake hands with the target" at P8+. However, he does not discuss the most important biomechanical element that is required and that is the pivot motions needed to avoid "running-out-of-trail arm" before P7.4. Consider Patrick Rodgers late downswing/early followthrough action.
Note that he can get his trail hand to reach the P7.4 position (image 3) with a slightly bent trail arm and still slightly extended trail wrist.
What makes that possible is the fact that he gets his trail shoulder socket far enough downplane by P7.4 to "avoid a "running-out-of-trail arm" scenario. To get the trail shoulder far enough downplane the following pivot motions should be optimised - i) the pelvis must be well open and ii) the lead shoulder socket must be pulled up-and-away from the ball-target line while ensuring that the lead shoulder socket is moving slightly away from the target due to the presence of secondary axis tilt. Also, acquiring right lateral bend at the same time allows the trail shoulder socket to move more downplane as the two shoulder sockets move in a more ferris-wheel (vertical) manner rather than a more merry-go-round (horizontal) manner.
Jeff.
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