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Post by imperfectgolfer on Mar 27, 2011 22:36:30 GMT -5
Jeffy wrote-: "I believe these stats show that it is logical to reason that "while many are interested in retaining connection or pressure point, it may serve to prematurely externally rotate the left shoulder along with the rib cage/spine rotation thereby destabilizing the shoulder/arm/wrist for impact".
Note that Jeffy has made an assertion without providing any type of biomechanical reasoning. It's typical of his illogical reasoning pattern.
Jeff.
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jeffy
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Post by jeffy on Mar 28, 2011 11:38:18 GMT -5
Jeffy wrote-: "I believe these stats show that it is logical to reason that "while many are interested in retaining connection or pressure point, it may serve to prematurely externally rotate the left shoulder along with the rib cage/spine rotation thereby destabilizing the shoulder/arm/wrist for impact". Note that Jeffy has made an assertion without providing any type of biomechanical reasoning. It's typical of his illogical reasoning pattern. Jeff. Once again, you descend to name calling. Plain and simple ad hominem attack. Time for your suspension! The biomechanical reasoning is self-evident from Kelvin's text: a left arm pulling away from the chest is less likely to externally rotate than one held tight to the chest. There was no need for me to repeat it.
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Post by imperfectgolfer on Mar 28, 2011 13:57:29 GMT -5
Jeffy wrote-: "a left arm pulling away from the chest is less likely to externally rotate than one held tight to the chest."
That's an assertion and not a biomechanical explanation. I think that it is a nonsensical assertion and I think that it has no merit.
Jeff.
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jeffy
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Post by jeffy on Mar 28, 2011 14:17:29 GMT -5
Jeffy wrote-: "a left arm pulling away from the chest is less likely to externally rotate than one held tight to the chest." That's an assertion and not a biomechanical explanation. I think that it is a nonsensical assertion and I think that it has no merit. Jeff. I think it is a very logical assertion and a perfectly adequate biomechanical explanation. It is also something any decent player would have experienced in their own game and any experienced instructor would know (pulling the left arm causes a slice, tight arm to upper chest encourages a draw). I also think your tone and word choice is highly offensive and antagonistic, and a blatant violation of forum rules of conduct.
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Post by imperfectgolfer on Mar 28, 2011 17:36:00 GMT -5
Jeffy wrote-: "I think it is a very logical assertion and a perfectly adequate biomechanical explanation. It is also something any decent player would have experienced in their own game and any experienced instructor would know (pulling the left arm causes a slice, tight arm to upper chest encourages a draw)."
That's not an explanation. It's merely a biased opinion. Kelvin would have to define what is meant by the term "shoulder stabilisation" and he would have to explain how separating the left upper arm from the upper chest wall produces "shoulder stabilisation" for me to even consider his explanation worthy of consideration. The issue as to whether keeping the left arm close to the chest wall produces a draw is a different issue, and regarding that particular issue I know of no reason why it should produce a draw (especially if the golfer roundhouses and produces an out-to-in clubhead swingpath).
Jeff.
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jeffy
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Post by jeffy on Mar 28, 2011 19:29:55 GMT -5
Of course, you are right. How stupid of me! For all these years I thought that pulling the left arm away from the chest impeded counterclockwise rotation of the left arm and caused a slice. Now, thanks to you, I know that it actually causes a draw, or, if pulled hard enough, a hook! Think how much money I could have made turning slicers into hookers if I had understood this simple truth 35 years ago. Alas. But, better late than never. Thank you so much!
And, of course, all those times I lined up right and kept the left upper arm tight to my chest I was actually SLICING it in to the target, even though my feeble-minded brain and eyes thought that I was hitting a draw. There aren't enough words in my vocabulary to express my gratitude to you for this enlightenment!
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Post by majorminor on Mar 28, 2011 20:38:59 GMT -5
I agree with Jeffy. PULL, NO PULL HARDER, NO YANK ON THAT CLUB,= what do you mean now your slicing.
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Post by imperfectgolfer on Mar 28, 2011 22:05:44 GMT -5
Jeffy wrote-: "Of course, you are right. How stupid of me! For all these years I thought that pulling the left arm away from the chest impeded counterclockwise rotation of the left arm and caused a slice. Now, thanks to you, I know that it actually causes a draw, or, if pulled hard enough, a hook!"
I think that it is ridiculous to believe that pulling the left arm away from the chest wall impedes counterclockwise rotation of the left arm, and that it will produce a slice. It is equally ridiculous to believe that is will predispose to a draw, and he certainly cannot have learnt that unfounded belief from me, because I never even remotely inferred that separating (or not separating) the left arm from the chest wall had any effect on clubhead path or clubface orientation angles at impact.
Jeffy also wrote-: "And, of course, all those times I lined up right and kept the left upper arm tight to my chest I was actually SLICING it in to the target, even though my feeble-minded brain and eyes thought that I was hitting a draw."
He was probably hitting a draw if he lined up right and swung in-to-out through impact thereby generating a clubhead path that was slightly right-of-the-target (with a clubface that was only slightly open to the ball-target line, but slightly closed to the path). However, it had no causal connection with a "left upper arm that was tight to his chest". It would also occur if the left arm was not tightly applied to the chest wall - if the same impact clubhead path/clubface orientation conditions existed.
Jeff.
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Post by imperfectgolfer on Mar 28, 2011 22:31:31 GMT -5
Jeffy wrote-: "Of course you are right. I cherish every word."
His "insincerity" is so obvious that it is dripping from the page and it may cause streaks on your computer screen!!!!
What is more important is that Jeffy has the unstoppable propensity to criticize virtually everything that I state - and his reasoning becomes more illogical and more ridiculous the harder he tries to accomplish that goal. When he first joined this forum, I hadn't encountered him for a long time, and I decided to adopt a neutral attitude and limit my posts to a discussion of golf swing mechanics/biomechanics. However, he soon demonstrated that as a "leopard cannot change his spots", so he could not stop insulting me with unnecessary ad hominem insults. I have since then responded in the same infantile way, and I will only stop when he deliberately/formally states that he will not add any further ad hominem insults to his posts, and that he will limit his posted comments to personal comments regarding golf swing mechanics/biomechanics/physics/geometry etc.
Jeff.
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Post by candygram on Apr 15, 2011 11:01:39 GMT -5
Kelvin just put up a case study video that illustrates some of the points I was making regarding the left arm:
Kaleo is my hero!
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