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Post by imperfectgolfer on Dec 18, 2011 17:12:48 GMT -5
Natep,
So are you stating that you actually have seem graphs of hand speeds of golfers who maintain an intact LAFW to P8, and also pro-flippers and also golfers who "throw the clubhead at the ball" like you prefer - and the hand speed graphs post-impact is the same in all three types?
Jeff.
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Post by tomdavis76 on Dec 18, 2011 17:45:59 GMT -5
Natep, You wrote-: "It's probably a good intention to have, but apparently it isn't happening in reality. (Based on Tapio's findings)." There are two ways to interpret Tapio's hand speed graphs. 1) They are truly reflective of the reality of all skilled golfers - irrespective of whether the golfer intends, or doesn't intend, to continue to actively accelerate his FLW from P7 to P7.5+. or 2) He hasn't measured golfers who have the ability to actively accelerate their FLW through impact from P7 to P7.5 in such a way that they can easily maintain a FLW to P7.5+ (like SMK). Why have you chosen to believe in 1) rather than 2)? Jeff. Jeff- That particular graph is of a multiple winner on the European tour. Although Tapio wouldn't confirm or deny it, someone at 3jack guessed it was Alex Noren. Tom
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Post by imperfectgolfer on Dec 18, 2011 18:05:43 GMT -5
Tom,
I am not particularly interested in seeing one graph of one golfer.
I would like to see multiple graphs of swingers versus hitters versus swing hitters, and of golfers who are pro-flippers versus golfers who maintain an intact LAFW to P8 - and I would like to see these graphs with the ball being present, and without a ball being present so that I can see what effect ball impact has on the post-impact hand speed of all those different golfers. I would then also like to see an explanation offered to explain any differences that may exist. Then we will all be ready to seriously debate the value of Tapio's 3-D machine.
Jeff.
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Post by natep on Dec 18, 2011 18:20:59 GMT -5
Natep, So are you stating that you actually have seem graphs of hand speeds of golfers who maintain an intact LAFW to P8, and also pro-flippers and also golfers who "throw the clubhead at the ball" like you prefer - and the hand speed graphs post-impact is the same in all three types? Jeff. First of all, no one that I saw keeps the club up the left arm all the way to P8. Its just not happening. If you can study swings from the top view straight down this is obvious. And its especially cool to have synced up videos from overhead and dtl and face on at the same time. It really makes it easy to see the 2d illusions you get from typical views. The club passes the left arm at different times depending on the player, but no one I saw held it to P8. Everyone I saw looks like this overhead pic of Tiger 2000ish at P8: And to answer your question, yes. In every swing/graph I looked at the hands slowed down due to impact. Flippier looking players, good players with shaft lean, tour players, etc. Of course this is not a huge sample size or totally conclusive. But it is what it is. I agree that it would be interesting to study this further. Unfortunately you had to go attacking Tapio's work, insulting him and pissing him off and it looks like he's ignoring your questions at Ralphs forum now. Although you think Tapio needs to dispense all kinds of info to you to prove the value of his work/machines, there's no doubt in my mind of the value of Tapio's machine. Its an amazing tool to say the very least.
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Post by imperfectgolfer on Dec 18, 2011 19:55:04 GMT -5
Natep, Seeing that you believe its amazing stuff - how about telling me what new golf insights you have learned re: golf swing mechanics/biomechanics from Tapio's 3-D work that has great utility. I don't have any problem believing that the hands slow down due to impact - considering that the clubhead slows down by ~25% due to impact. However, you haven't also stated that all hand speed graphs are the same for different golf swing techniques. You are free to believe that Matt and Dustin Johnson and Tommy Gainey don't have an intact LAFW/FLW, or near-intact LAFW, at P8 in these images. Its close enough for me to believe that the club hasn't passed the left arm - from a rotational perspective. They certainly have a FLW at P7.5 - which doesn't happen in BM's "throw the clubhead at the ball" release action. I usually specify the P7.5+ position because it doesn't really matter if the FLW bends slightly beyond P7.5 (where the followthrough usually officially ends). I cannot think of any benefit in maintaining a FLW beyond P7.5.
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