Post by imperfectgolfer on Feb 16, 2012 10:42:34 GMT -5
Check this latest BM-thread
www.brianmanzella.com/golfing-discussions/16852-out-toss.html
BM now talks about a downtoss (which seems to be the same as his tumble) and he uses Tiger Woods as an example (from the old Golf Channel video with Butch Harmon).
Here is Tiger performing the downtoss/tumble.
Image 1 is at the P6 position when the club is parallel to the ground - note that the clubshaft is angled outwards (green dotted line). That is an OTT action which has caused the club to tumble over-the-plane, and it will produce an out-to-in clubhead path through the impact zone. Image 2 shows that a tumble will cause the left wrist to bend (red dotted line) which actually means that the club will likely flip passed the left arm pre-impact as the left arm rotates around its longitdudinal axis in the last 0.03 seconds of the downswing.
This tumble action would be disastrous if actually used in a full golf swing, and I have never seen a professional golfer deliberately perform a tumble action (if they are not coming OTT). BM refers to a tumble action as a "feel", which implies that a golfer should never actually perform a tumble action. I can understand acquiring that "feel" if you drop the club behind you in the early downswing and approach the P6 position in a underplane manner, but I don't believe that one should ever actually tumble the club over-plane in that tumbling
manner.
Kevin Shields wrote-: "It's good for over the top flippers as well. Those people have no tumble, they only know how to uncock their left wrists into the ball. That's the real reason they come over the top. Hands to the ball, uncock the left wrist."
That's crazy reasoning. He believes that OTT flippers have no tumble, which is astonishing! He then states that they come OTT because they only know how to uncock their left wrist! Wow! I have seen crazy suggestions for the cause of an OTT move - but that is one of the craziest suggestions.
Then KS wrote-: "No one has ever flipped when the clubhead is going over the hands." Really!!! So, why is Tiger's left wrist bending in that above photo?
KS's lack of logic always amazes me. In his opening post, he actually believes that the BM "out-toss maneuver gave him the ability to draw the ball at will". He wrote-: "So that feel alone allowed me to draw it at will, STORE LAG for later use, get the club past my left wrist after impact, and basically play really well on a demanding ball strikers course." Why an out-toss maneuver should allow a golfer to draw the ball is beyond me - any suggestions? Maybe it is really related to the fact that he is flipping through impact and closing the clubface (relative to the clubhead arc) when he tries to get the left wrist to bend immediately after impact. If that is true - then it (a pro-fiippng action) is a very timiing-dependent way to deliberately perform a draw.
Jeff.
www.brianmanzella.com/golfing-discussions/16852-out-toss.html
BM now talks about a downtoss (which seems to be the same as his tumble) and he uses Tiger Woods as an example (from the old Golf Channel video with Butch Harmon).
Here is Tiger performing the downtoss/tumble.
Image 1 is at the P6 position when the club is parallel to the ground - note that the clubshaft is angled outwards (green dotted line). That is an OTT action which has caused the club to tumble over-the-plane, and it will produce an out-to-in clubhead path through the impact zone. Image 2 shows that a tumble will cause the left wrist to bend (red dotted line) which actually means that the club will likely flip passed the left arm pre-impact as the left arm rotates around its longitdudinal axis in the last 0.03 seconds of the downswing.
This tumble action would be disastrous if actually used in a full golf swing, and I have never seen a professional golfer deliberately perform a tumble action (if they are not coming OTT). BM refers to a tumble action as a "feel", which implies that a golfer should never actually perform a tumble action. I can understand acquiring that "feel" if you drop the club behind you in the early downswing and approach the P6 position in a underplane manner, but I don't believe that one should ever actually tumble the club over-plane in that tumbling
manner.
Kevin Shields wrote-: "It's good for over the top flippers as well. Those people have no tumble, they only know how to uncock their left wrists into the ball. That's the real reason they come over the top. Hands to the ball, uncock the left wrist."
That's crazy reasoning. He believes that OTT flippers have no tumble, which is astonishing! He then states that they come OTT because they only know how to uncock their left wrist! Wow! I have seen crazy suggestions for the cause of an OTT move - but that is one of the craziest suggestions.
Then KS wrote-: "No one has ever flipped when the clubhead is going over the hands." Really!!! So, why is Tiger's left wrist bending in that above photo?
KS's lack of logic always amazes me. In his opening post, he actually believes that the BM "out-toss maneuver gave him the ability to draw the ball at will". He wrote-: "So that feel alone allowed me to draw it at will, STORE LAG for later use, get the club past my left wrist after impact, and basically play really well on a demanding ball strikers course." Why an out-toss maneuver should allow a golfer to draw the ball is beyond me - any suggestions? Maybe it is really related to the fact that he is flipping through impact and closing the clubface (relative to the clubhead arc) when he tries to get the left wrist to bend immediately after impact. If that is true - then it (a pro-fiippng action) is a very timiing-dependent way to deliberately perform a draw.
Jeff.