Post by imperfectgolfer on Dec 31, 2012 22:32:22 GMT -5
See this BM-forum thread - www.brianmanzella.com/golfing-discussions/17947-sort-nsa-4-preview-2.html
The BM groupies are discussing the arms moving away from the chest wall in the downswing.
KS stated-: "Your arms need some ability to separate themeselves from the upper torso so they can swing down the chest. If the torso or shoulders pull, or tug, the arms stay high and pinned to the chest, which is powerless and ruins the ability for the club to swing from one side of the body to the other. Results vary, but early releases, late reverse tumbles, pulls, slices, etc are common."
He is completely wrong to state that the arms have to separate from the chest wall in order to swing down to impact. The arms are moving in a much more vertical plane than the torso rotation, and the arms can easily move down to impact while the upper arms are still held tightly connected to the chest wall. The degree of close-connection between the upper arms and the chest wall is greater if a golfer has a more erect posture (like Brian Gay) and less if one has a more bent-over spinal posture (like Bradley Keegan), but in both cases there is no impedance to the downward-and-forward movement of the straight left arm towards impact.
cwdlaw223 then asked-: "Does standing up in the downswing (i.e., goat humping) make it easier for the arms to swing down the body? It seems to me that it would make it easier the more erect the player in the downswing purely from a speed standpoint."
Gary answered as follows-: "Perhaps the standing up allows the body to get closer to arms that have failed to travel correctly. I don't agree it makes it easier. But I can see the body reacting to out if positions arms through compensating in this manner. Ie if the arms can't lower against the body, the body will have to rise up to fulfills the same role.
I think that Gary's answer is totally incorrect. Goat-humping is not a "standing-up" compensation that makes it easier to swing the arms down to impact more optimally. Goat-humping is a swing fault that makes it more difficult to swing the arms down to impact - because the standing-up posture produced by goat-humping decreases the room in front of the pelvis (which has moved closer to the ball-target line) for the arms to swing down to impact. It is not primarily the more erect posture produced by standing-up that is the major problem - it is the fact that the pelvis has moved closer to the ball-target line, which means that there is less room in front of the pelvis for the hand arc path (between P6 and P7). In particular, there must be room for the right elbow to get into a pitch elbow situation so that the right forearm can paddlewheel into impact and assist in the efficient release of PA#3. That is much more difficult to accomplish when one has less room in front of the pelvis for the hand arc path. This problem-issue has nothing to do with the movement of the left arm downwards-and-forwards towards impact from P4 to P7 - which can occur easily whether one has an erect posture or a more bent-over posture (as long as there is enough room between the front of the pelvis and the ball-target line for an in-to-square-to-in hand and clubshaft swingpath, and for the right forearm's paddlewheeling action.
Jeff.
The BM groupies are discussing the arms moving away from the chest wall in the downswing.
KS stated-: "Your arms need some ability to separate themeselves from the upper torso so they can swing down the chest. If the torso or shoulders pull, or tug, the arms stay high and pinned to the chest, which is powerless and ruins the ability for the club to swing from one side of the body to the other. Results vary, but early releases, late reverse tumbles, pulls, slices, etc are common."
He is completely wrong to state that the arms have to separate from the chest wall in order to swing down to impact. The arms are moving in a much more vertical plane than the torso rotation, and the arms can easily move down to impact while the upper arms are still held tightly connected to the chest wall. The degree of close-connection between the upper arms and the chest wall is greater if a golfer has a more erect posture (like Brian Gay) and less if one has a more bent-over spinal posture (like Bradley Keegan), but in both cases there is no impedance to the downward-and-forward movement of the straight left arm towards impact.
cwdlaw223 then asked-: "Does standing up in the downswing (i.e., goat humping) make it easier for the arms to swing down the body? It seems to me that it would make it easier the more erect the player in the downswing purely from a speed standpoint."
Gary answered as follows-: "Perhaps the standing up allows the body to get closer to arms that have failed to travel correctly. I don't agree it makes it easier. But I can see the body reacting to out if positions arms through compensating in this manner. Ie if the arms can't lower against the body, the body will have to rise up to fulfills the same role.
I think that Gary's answer is totally incorrect. Goat-humping is not a "standing-up" compensation that makes it easier to swing the arms down to impact more optimally. Goat-humping is a swing fault that makes it more difficult to swing the arms down to impact - because the standing-up posture produced by goat-humping decreases the room in front of the pelvis (which has moved closer to the ball-target line) for the arms to swing down to impact. It is not primarily the more erect posture produced by standing-up that is the major problem - it is the fact that the pelvis has moved closer to the ball-target line, which means that there is less room in front of the pelvis for the hand arc path (between P6 and P7). In particular, there must be room for the right elbow to get into a pitch elbow situation so that the right forearm can paddlewheel into impact and assist in the efficient release of PA#3. That is much more difficult to accomplish when one has less room in front of the pelvis for the hand arc path. This problem-issue has nothing to do with the movement of the left arm downwards-and-forwards towards impact from P4 to P7 - which can occur easily whether one has an erect posture or a more bent-over posture (as long as there is enough room between the front of the pelvis and the ball-target line for an in-to-square-to-in hand and clubshaft swingpath, and for the right forearm's paddlewheeling action.
Jeff.