Swing speed evolution

[imperfectgolfer]

See this jeffy-forum thread started by Lifter - jeffygolf.com/showthread.php?856-My-%28lack-of%29-clubhead-speed

I decided to study the evolution of his swings from 109 => 131mpmh.

Here are capture images showing his left arm angle at the P4 position.



Here is a video where he describes what be believes caused his increased clubhead speed over a period of a month.




He states that he swinging more upright (more like Nicklaus rather than Hogan) now, and that accounts for his increased CH speed. I believe that he is self-deluding himself - because there is no significant change in his left arm angle at the P4 position, and he doesn't have Nicklaus' more vertical left arm angle at P4 or Nicklaus' flying right elbow position at P4. He also doesn't have a longer backswing or increased lag. The only difference that I can see is an "apparent" increased pivot speed that causes him to increase his speed of PA#4 release.

What do you think is causing his increased CH speed?

Jeff.

[konrad]

Cannot believe those numbers are reality. Highly doubt they are accurate.

[tomdavis76]

Nov 16, 2013 22:18:09 GMT -5 konrad said:

Cannot believe those numbers are reality. Highly doubt they are accurate.

Pretty obvious they aren't. Those hackers have swing speeds greater than the tour average of 112???

[imperfectgolfer]

Konrad,

What is "deficient" about his swing from a biomechanical/mechanical perspective?

By the way, even if that radar device is off by 20-30%, the same question remains - what swing change caused his CH speed to increase by 22% over a period of 1 month?

Jeff.

[tomdavis76]

I don't believe his swing speed changed much at all. You can fool yourself into thinking it has increased a lot with the SwindSpeed Radar. I have. And a young girl whose father used to post a lot (golfdad) "increased" her swing speed to 119 on one of those things! Of course, that guy could also just be lying.

[konrad]

Why should I care or consider what a couple of schmuck hack amateurs say about their clubhead speed using a downmarket device?

It's a waste of time impulsively trying to increase clubhead speed. What's important is spin, launch and ball speed, if someone is interested in optimizing distance with a driver.

[imperfectgolfer]

Konrad,

You wrote-: "It's a waste of time impulsively trying to increase clubhead speed. What's important is spin, launch and ball speed, if someone is interested in optimizing distance with a driver."

I cannot understand why you used the word "impulsively". Even if that radar device is inaccurate, a 22% increase in CH speed is very significant because that's how a golfer can get a comparable increase in ball speed (presuming an optimum/unchanged smash factor). His spin and launch angle results are not necessarily going to be any worse as a result of getting a 22% increase in CH speed.

You have still not stated what is "deficient" about his swing action.

Jeff.

[konrad]

I used that word because it's a waste of time to solely pursue clubhead speed without sufficiently considering the other important factors that are necessary to optimize distance hitting a driver.

I agree with Jeffy, I don't believe that hacker swing is capable of producing significant gains in clubhead speed. It's deficient compared to a tour professional. Do you doubt that?

[imperfectgolfer]

Konrad,

You wrote-: " I used that word because it's a waste of time to solely pursue clubhead speed without sufficiently considering the other important factors that are necessary to optimize distance hitting a driver."

Presuming a golfer has optimal launch angle conditions, I think that it is advantageous if he can increase his CH speed by 22% while still maintaining optimal launch angle conditions.

You also wrote-: "I agree with Jeffy, I don't believe that hacker swing is capable of producing significant gains in clubhead speed. It's deficient compared to a tour professional. Do you doubt that?"

His swing may be less efficient than a PGA tour golfer's swing (eg. Adam Scott's) but I cannot understand why you believe that he should not be capable of obtaining significant gains in CH speed by increasing the speed of his pivot action, and therefore the speed of release of PA#4.

Jeff.

[konrad]

Why would you presume his launch conditions are optimal? His swing is awful. I'll bet his spin rate is high also.

His swing is GROSSLY less efficient than Adam Scott, yet he claims he has 10 mph higher clubhead speed. I don't believe him.

Every swing in the two videos his pivot is terrible and basically identical in each swing. I highly doubt he's producing significant clubhead speed gains from one swing to the next. Not only do I not believe he's swinging at 119 mph, I know he's not swinging at 131 mph. That's a pipe dream on his part.

A lot of players on the PGA Tour don't have clubhead speed of 120 mph yet this complete hacker is making one chop swing after another claiming clubhead speed in the mid 120's. I say it's nonsense.

As for the other two guys, their swings are even more pathetic. IMO, none of these guys warrant any serious attention whatsoever. If you want to waste more time trying to prove this guys clubhead speed gains are valid, go for it.

[imperfectgolfer]

Konrad,

You wrote-:His swing is GROSSLY less efficient than Adam Scott, yet he claims he has 10 mph higher clubhead speed. I don't believe him."

I have already accepted a posted assertion that the radar readings could be off by ~25% which means that his swing speed is really in the 100-110mph range. However, that doesn't mean that he is a hacker. I think that his swing action is biomechanically OK, and one still has to explain why he could increase his CH speeds by 22% within 1 month (presuming that the comparative readings from session-to-session are valid).

This table shows that CH speed is more important than optimizing launch angle and spin if one wants to maximize distance.



A golfer will double his distance gained (269 => 315) if he increases his CH speed from 105mph to 120 mph - compared to improving his launch angle conditions while remaining at 105mph (269 => 296). Also, there is nothing preventing a golfer who increases his CH speed from 105mph to 120mph from also improving his launch conditions.

Jeff.

[chipitin]

Can you explain how a swing speed of apprx. 110 mph can have an increased distance carry of 270 yds as opposed to a swing speed of 114.2 mph and a distance carry of 250yds.

That's a 20 yd increase in carry distance with a swing speed 4.2 mph less.



The impact conditions and other factors are for sure contributing to distance, even a change in equipment can lead to gains in distance.


What's the point of increasing swing speed if you can't also increase the carry distance?

There are lot's of factors involved.

I don't believe that the subject golfer has a swing speed of 130mph, but it doesn't matter as he probably has increased his swing speed a certain percentage along with improving his technique and changed equipment also to gain yardage.

It's not his fault that the radar device is off on the readings for swing speed he was only reporting what the readings were and in the video his swing is not one of a hacker. I would like to hear the explanation of what is so deficient in his swing compared to hackers.





To compare him to Adam Scott is ridiculous and doesn't alter the fact that he has increased his swing speed for his swing and that's all he is concerned with.

I doubt he is in competition with Adam Scott for best swing.

[konrad]

Nov 19, 2013 19:14:34 GMT -5 imperfectgolfer said:

This table shows that CH speed is more important than optimizing launch angle and spin if one wants to maximize distance.

Not exactly true based on what is actually achievable.

Going from 105 to 120 mph clubhead speed is unrealistic. Other than unique instances, 99.9% of all golfers are not going to be able to attain that kind of gain. Golfers have been trying to significantly increase clubhead speed for years with not much success and not much of an increase in total distance. Without hitting the right spot on the clubface, low launch, high spin, it won't matter much even if a player can increase Clubhead speed a bit. Look at the chart you posted. It clearly illustrates how important launch and spin are in significantly increasing distance at a particular clubhead speed. At 120 mph clubhead speed the difference between 6* launch 3400 spin and 12.6* launch 2340 spin is 30 yards. That's a lot.

Nobody even talks about clubhead speed anymore. It's all about ball speed, launch and spin. Ball speed, which directly reflects whether or not a player is hitting the most advantageous point on the clubfrace along with optimized launch and spin achieves max carry and roll.

Why do you think Taylormade's SLDR driver increases a player's distance so much without any increase in clubhead speed? They figured out that moving the CG forward as far as possible towards the face lowers spin dramatically and along with a higher loft that increases the launch angle, a player can gain significant carry and roll distance with zero increase in clubhead speed.

There are many guys on tour that work out religiously and have optimized equipment and clubhead speeds below 120 mph and there's no way they can get to 130 mph. Yet this hack amateur with a swing that is so much more inefficient along with off the rack equipment can go from 112 mph to 131 mph in a month. Yeah right! Guess again.