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Post by dubiousgolfer on Mar 27, 2020 11:55:55 GMT -5
I'm quite amazed at the 8mph increase in clubhead speed that Cordie Walker achieved just by changing his swing thought cue to a faster backswing. The theory behind this is that a faster backswing will require an increased average force on the grip to zero out the motion of the club by P4 and that this will enable the golfer to have a larger starting linear force (along the hand path) from P4 until release. It seems like a simple method of being able to smoothly prime a larger linear hand force by P4 to be used immediately during the start of the downswing until release (rather than any jerking movements to increase the hand force from a lower P4 start value). DG
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Post by imperfectgolfer on Mar 27, 2020 13:17:14 GMT -5
It may work for some golfers, but I would not be surprised to learn that it does not benefit other pro golfers who pause at the end-backswing position. eg. Hideki Matsuyama.
Jeff.
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Post by utahgolfer on Mar 28, 2020 0:24:03 GMT -5
Hi DG,
I watched this video when it first came out and perhaps my comments were deleted. There is no question many pros swing at a fast backswing pace and downswing pace. But, for a given player to significantly speed up the backswing to maximize club head speed may work on the range, but maybe not on the course. A proper kinematic sequence would need to be maintained along with all other proper swing mechanics. It definitely doesn't guarantee a better golf score. It may work if a player was swinging too slow for his or her ideal speed, but I doubt that happens too often, especially with an experienced player like Cordie.
Phil Mickelsen's speed work with the weighted clubs has definitely increased his club head speed, but his golf course scores have not justified it so far. The same problem may be happening with PGA pros who do these heavy lifting exercise programs. There is no evidence that these extreme exercise programs are truly beneficial for golf. Tiger may have won more majors had he performed an exercise program that was designed for a golfer instead of a navy seal. Rory, could be in the same boat. He trains more like a Irish footballer instead of a golfer, and it may have hurt him on the golf course more than helped him.
UG
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Post by dubiousgolfer on Mar 28, 2020 7:39:57 GMT -5
Hi UG
Yes, our preoccupation with clubhead speed and the long game is imho over emphasised in todays golf instruction. The biomechanics of the short game might be even more complex considering all the different concepts golf instruction uses for 'pitching/chipping/putting/bunker' shots but I (and probably lots of recreational golfers) would be interested in knowing the optimal techniques (if there were any plus evidence to prove it).
Cordie mentioned on the video that his clubhead speed was increased but where the ball ended wasn't a very good result, so swinging faster might influence your ability to balance and find the correct rhythm (and you still have to hit the ball on the sweet spot too).
DG
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Post by syllogist on Mar 28, 2020 10:19:51 GMT -5
Hi DG,
I agree that clubhead speed is a function of force and distance over which the hands travel in the downswing. However, I'm not convinced that force is increased starting down .because a positive torque exists at the top of the swing to slow the arms or to prevent over-cocking of the wrists. SMK's contention here is that downswing force can be "jumpstarted."
If the kinetic sequence holds that torso rotattion brings the left arm with it in the initial stage of the downswing, how can jumpstarted force of the arm or hand be relevant?
I think that there are more likely four things that could have contributed to Cordie's increase in downswing speed with his increase in backswing speed: A slightly longer backswing, slightly greater wristcock, the application of greater force, or better initial sequencing. There does not appear to be a noticeable difference in his backswing length in the before and after swings. My guess is greater wristcock. With a swing that remains the same in terms of technique, an 8 mph increase in speed requires a tremendous increase in force alone.
S
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Post by dubiousgolfer on Mar 31, 2020 22:22:17 GMT -5
I've just been revisiting Dr Mann's article regarding Chamblee's book 'The Anatomy of Greatness' especially Chapter 6 - The Completion Of The Backswing'.
"Brandel Chamblee believes that a golfer should keep the clubhead as far away from the body as possible during the *P2 to P3 time period, which he believes will correlate with increased swing power. He is seemingly against the idea of setting the wrists early because he believes that it will result in a narrower clubhead arc and thereby rob a golfer of potential swing power. "
I always wondered why golfers held this 'intuitive belief' that a wider backswing equated to more clubhead speed but I couldn't understand the physics behind it (until it just clicked with me just now).
By having a wide swing in the takeaway the MOI of the arms/club unit is larger (ie. the COM of the arms/club unit is further away from the centre of upper body pivot axis). Therefore one requires more torque (and therefore force) via the hands to slow it down by the end of the backswing.
Again this creates a condition of a higher hand force primed at the beginning of P4 similar to the physics involved with a quicker backswing (in that earlier video above). So theoretically , there should be an advantage in creating, on average, a greater force along the downswing hand path from P4-Release (that should equate to greater clubhead speed just before release).
Personally , I'm not a fan of a one-piece takeaway as it tends to cause me to sway too much away from the target.
DG
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Post by syllogist on Apr 1, 2020 5:10:58 GMT -5
Hi DG, I happened to find a short tips video by Brandel after his book was published: www.youtube.com/watch?v=JW_mjyWWeg0He didn't mention his wide backswing theory but did talk about making a full turn to get the hands "away from the ball" to get them as "high" as possible at the top, meaning the length of the backswing. Watch his demonstration at the 2:45 min. mark to judge whether his wrist set is really delayed. As for MOI, I would think that a set position of the wrists would reduce the MOI of the arms/club unit to facilitate a faster backswing, which would require more force to slow it at the top. However, to argue against my own thought, I would ask myself whether one actually applies force in the opposite direction with arm muscle to slow the club (is backswing force just lessened or turned off to achieve a deceleration of arms/club unit?) and, if one does apply arm force in the opposite direction, is it significant to cause a meaningful change in direction? S
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Post by dubiousgolfer on Apr 1, 2020 9:43:23 GMT -5
Hi S
I think Chamblee's idea about gravity creating clubhead speed makes no sense at all from a physics perspective (it is a very small net effect on clubhead speed). From a personal opinion, I think he has used the same concepts that Shawn Clement uses in his instruction. However if you apply on average the same force on an object over a longer path the more work you can do, the greater the speed of that object. So increasing the height or length of the backswing (if that's physically possible for the specific golfer) provides the opportunity to apply force (if the golfer has that capability) over a greater distance and therefore increase clubhead speed, especially before release.
If you look at this video of Justin Thomas below, Sasho Mackenzie claims that he is actually starting to apply positive torque very early in the backswing to stop the clubhead rotating by the end of his backswing . So by the time he has reached P4 , he is applying a greater force on the club (than just giving it enough Kinetic energy at the start of the backswing to reach a certain height and stop by P4). If he did the latter, then he would have to start applying force from a zero value than a 'primed' value.
I suspect it depends on the golfer what forces he prefers to apply on the club during transition.
DG
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