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Post by dubiousgolfer on Oct 18, 2021 11:28:48 GMT -5
Dr Mann
So the right hand circumduction movement is basically a passive way to re-position the right hand while the PA#3 club squaring effect is performed? It prevents the right forearm/wrist from becoming overly involved in the PA#3 release?
DG
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Post by imperfectgolfer on Oct 18, 2021 12:53:37 GMT -5
Dr Mann So the right hand circumduction movement is basically a passive way to re-position the right hand while the PA#3 club squaring effect is performed? It prevents the right forearm/wrist from becoming overly involved in the PA#3 release? DG Basically affirmative. It allows the right palm to accomodate itself during a PA#3 release action so that it maintains the same relative position on the club handle - with the amount of circumduction being determined by the i) trail hand grip strength, the ii) degree of straightening of the right arm and right wrist and iii) the degree of right forearm supination happening during the later downswing. It's obviously a very complex biomechanical phenomenon because of all the biomechanical elements involved, but the trail palm must accomodate itself to what is happening with respect to the lead forearm/wrist if the golfer is a TGM swinger who uses the intact LFFW technique and a PA#3 release action that is due to lead forearm supination.
Jeff.
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Post by dubiousgolfer on Oct 18, 2021 16:44:11 GMT -5
Dr Mann So the right hand circumduction movement is basically a passive way to re-position the right hand while the PA#3 club squaring effect is performed? It prevents the right forearm/wrist from becoming overly involved in the PA#3 release? DG Basically affirmative. It allows the right palm to accomodate itself during a PA#3 release action so that it maintains the same relative position on the club handle - with the amount of circumduction being determined by the i) trail hand grip strength, the ii) degree of straightening of the right arm and right wrist and iii) the degree of right forearm supination happening during the later downswing. It's obviously a very complex biomechanical phenomenon because of all the biomechanical elements involved, but the trail palm must accomodate itself to what is happening with respect to the lead forearm/wrist if the golfer is a TGM swinger who uses the intact LFFW technique and a PA#3 release action that is due to lead forearm supination.
Jeff.
Many thanks Dr Mann Will also the reorientation of the right shoulder socket more targetwards (while internal rotation of the right humerus occurring) also affect the amount of circumduction (as per one of your previous posts- copy below)? DG ---------- I am now inclined to think that internal rotation of the trail humerus does have a clubface closing effect if the trail humerus changes it angles during the process of internal rotation. I previously argued that if the one kept the trail humerus vertical and then rotated it 90 degrees counterclockwise while keeping the trail forearm supinated, that it would not have a clubface closing effect. That claim would apply if the trail humerus remained stationary. However, look at these capture images of the "top view" golfer.  Note that his trail elbow is progressively moving closer to the target between image 1 => image 4 as his trail upper forearm moves from being vertical and perpendicular to the ball-target line at P6, to becoming nearly parallel to the ball-target line at P7.5. During that time period, his trail humerus is rotating internally, while it is simultaneously changing is angular orientation, and that combination may allow the trail palm to rotate counterclockwise secondary to the rotary motion of the trail upper arm, and not solely due to counterclockwise rotation of the trail forearm - note that the upper trail forearm looks more rotated counterclockwise in image 4 compared to image 1. Jeff. |
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Post by imperfectgolfer on Oct 18, 2021 21:13:00 GMT -5
Basically affirmative. It allows the right palm to accomodate itself during a PA#3 release action so that it maintains the same relative position on the club handle - with the amount of circumduction being determined by the i) trail hand grip strength, the ii) degree of straightening of the right arm and right wrist and iii) the degree of right forearm supination happening during the later downswing. It's obviously a very complex biomechanical phenomenon because of all the biomechanical elements involved, but the trail palm must accomodate itself to what is happening with respect to the lead forearm/wrist if the golfer is a TGM swinger who uses the intact LFFW technique and a PA#3 release action that is due to lead forearm supination. Jeff.
Many thanks Dr Mann Will also the reorientation of the right shoulder socket more targetwards (while internal rotation of the right humerus occurring) also affect the amount of circumduction (as per one of your previous posts- copy below)? DG ---------- I am now inclined to think that internal rotation of the trail humerus does have a clubface closing effect if the trail humerus changes it angles during the process of internal rotation. I previously argued that if the one kept the trail humerus vertical and then rotated it 90 degrees counterclockwise while keeping the trail forearm supinated, that it would not have a clubface closing effect. That claim would apply if the trail humerus remained stationary. However, look at these capture images of the "top view" golfer. Note that his trail elbow is progressively moving closer to the target between image 1 => image 4 as his trail upper forearm moves from being vertical and perpendicular to the ball-target line at P6, to becoming nearly parallel to the ball-target line at P7.5. During that time period, his trail humerus is rotating internally, while it is simultaneously changing is angular orientation, and that combination may allow the trail palm to rotate counterclockwise secondary to the rotary motion of the trail upper arm, and not solely due to counterclockwise rotation of the trail forearm - note that the upper trail forearm looks more rotated counterclockwise in image 4 compared to image 1. Jeff. Yes - but it is too complicated for me to estimate the magnitude of its effect considering all the other biomechanical factors that are involved. Jeff. |
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Post by dubiousgolfer on Oct 22, 2021 20:02:22 GMT -5
Quite good slo-mo videos showing how the forearms and wrists/hands are working in the downswing.  DG |
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Post by imperfectgolfer on Oct 23, 2021 10:18:37 GMT -5
DG,
Those are wonderful slow motion videos showing how the golfers (Blair Freitas and Shawn Lu) maintain an intact LFFW in the late downswing because they use a neutral lead hand grip. It also shows that the trail forearm becomes less supinated between P6.5 => P7 (when the lead hand is rotating a lot counterclockwise). Also, their trail palm remains under the club handle despite trail forearm rotation in a counterclockwise direction, which implies that the trail wrist is likely rolling clockwise due to a circumductory roll motion when it straightens between P6.5 => P7.
Arnold Chung adopts a strong lead hand grip so he uses far less PA#3 release action between P6.5 => P7. His trail forearm consequently seems to rotate less in a counterclockwise direction.
Jeff.
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Post by dubiousgolfer on Oct 23, 2021 17:41:35 GMT -5
Dr Mann
Yes , I thought you'd like those videos.
DG
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