Post by imperfectgolfer on Dec 3, 2010 23:17:14 GMT -5
Eric Barzeski wrote the following in a 3jack forum thread on the reverse C issue-:
""Some people have said that the finish we prescribe - with the butt tucked, the hips forward (brief aside: forward at Z9 is left as well, as the forward dimension changes as the hips rotate), the legs extended, etc. looks a lot like the old reverse C from the 70s... but the biggest difference is in the legs." We then go on to demonstrate bent knees versus extended, long legs.
Whatever we want to call it - and I'm okay calling it a "Reverse C with Bent Knees" and a "Reverse C with full extension" (though calling them "Old" and "New" is a bit shorter) - I'm sure we can agree that the "old" bent knee style is harder on your back and NOT what any modern teachers teach (so far as I know).
I've had more than a few conversations about the Reverse C with some back specialists, surgeons, and chiropractors, and James had some sort of major back issues years ago so he's had these conversations too, and they all tend to point out that the S&T method is similar to stretching, and we don't prescribe as much forward as some people seem to think, AND we don't care if the golfer lets his head go forward (like Wi does frequently) after the ball's gone, so long as it actually starts after the ball is gone...
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One final point... a lot of golfers from the 70s pushed their hips, knees, and WELL forward, plus their head started and stayed much farther back than an S&T golfer, so the amount of actual extension/bending/curving/whatever-you-wanna-call-it in the "Old" Reverse C is often much, much greater than in "Modern" style - whatever we call it."
Questions:
1. He talks about a "Reverse C with Bent knees" and a "Reverse C with full extension". He then wrote-: "I'm sure we can agree that the "old" bent knee style is harder on your back."
On what basis can he claim that the "old" knee style is harder on the lower back - presuming that the degree the head-is-behind-the-pelvis is the same, and the time period that the head remains behind the pelvis during the followthorugh/finish remains the same?
2. He also implies that the S&T swing's reverse C motion is similar to stretching, thereby maybe implying that it may be beneficial. In what sense is it similar to "stretching" and why should it be beneficial?
3. He also states-: "we don't care if the golfer lets his head go forward (like Wi does frequently) after the ball's gone, so long as it actually starts after the ball is gone."
That may be his practice, but it is not stated that way in the S&T book.
On page 113 of their S&T book, B/P have a section on spine extension during the followthrough (right arm parallel to the ground). They state-: "The head has remained in its address position as the hips have slid forward and the legs have pushed upwards. This causes the spine to tilt away from the target and fully elongate."
Addendum added December 4th.
Here is Dan Carraher's downswing/followthrough.
Note his followthrough position - image 3 - where the right arm is parallel to the ground.
Don't you think that he is following B/P's advice expressed on page 113 of their S&T book - about keeping the head back at its address location.
Jeff.
""Some people have said that the finish we prescribe - with the butt tucked, the hips forward (brief aside: forward at Z9 is left as well, as the forward dimension changes as the hips rotate), the legs extended, etc. looks a lot like the old reverse C from the 70s... but the biggest difference is in the legs." We then go on to demonstrate bent knees versus extended, long legs.
Whatever we want to call it - and I'm okay calling it a "Reverse C with Bent Knees" and a "Reverse C with full extension" (though calling them "Old" and "New" is a bit shorter) - I'm sure we can agree that the "old" bent knee style is harder on your back and NOT what any modern teachers teach (so far as I know).
I've had more than a few conversations about the Reverse C with some back specialists, surgeons, and chiropractors, and James had some sort of major back issues years ago so he's had these conversations too, and they all tend to point out that the S&T method is similar to stretching, and we don't prescribe as much forward as some people seem to think, AND we don't care if the golfer lets his head go forward (like Wi does frequently) after the ball's gone, so long as it actually starts after the ball is gone...
-----
One final point... a lot of golfers from the 70s pushed their hips, knees, and WELL forward, plus their head started and stayed much farther back than an S&T golfer, so the amount of actual extension/bending/curving/whatever-you-wanna-call-it in the "Old" Reverse C is often much, much greater than in "Modern" style - whatever we call it."
Questions:
1. He talks about a "Reverse C with Bent knees" and a "Reverse C with full extension". He then wrote-: "I'm sure we can agree that the "old" bent knee style is harder on your back."
On what basis can he claim that the "old" knee style is harder on the lower back - presuming that the degree the head-is-behind-the-pelvis is the same, and the time period that the head remains behind the pelvis during the followthorugh/finish remains the same?
2. He also implies that the S&T swing's reverse C motion is similar to stretching, thereby maybe implying that it may be beneficial. In what sense is it similar to "stretching" and why should it be beneficial?
3. He also states-: "we don't care if the golfer lets his head go forward (like Wi does frequently) after the ball's gone, so long as it actually starts after the ball is gone."
That may be his practice, but it is not stated that way in the S&T book.
On page 113 of their S&T book, B/P have a section on spine extension during the followthrough (right arm parallel to the ground). They state-: "The head has remained in its address position as the hips have slid forward and the legs have pushed upwards. This causes the spine to tilt away from the target and fully elongate."
Addendum added December 4th.
Here is Dan Carraher's downswing/followthrough.
Note his followthrough position - image 3 - where the right arm is parallel to the ground.
Don't you think that he is following B/P's advice expressed on page 113 of their S&T book - about keeping the head back at its address location.
Jeff.
