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Post by imperfectgolfer on Jun 10, 2012 20:48:03 GMT -5
Ah! Now I know who you really are - you are Footwedge.
The spelling of the word "your" as "your'e" was the ultimate clue, and the taunting tone/nature of your posts confirms that fact.
Your posts will soon be deleted from this forum because we cannot have an uncivilized person contaminate this forum with vulgar posts (as manifested by you in the Gotham Golf Blog forum).
Jeff.
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Post by imperfectgolfer on Jun 14, 2012 8:14:05 GMT -5
Consider this BM thread page www.brianmanzella.com/golfing-discussions/17179-hinge-action-rate-closure-what-you-should-do-clubface-p9-pic-21.htmlDariusz wrote-: "Straightening of the rear wrist/flexing of the lead wrist is the most natural subconscious-guided movement in this area of human body because it goes alongside with physics. That's how hinges work -- they do not hold anything because it is an antithesis of their existence, so to speak. I would say that every other possible actions in the wrist area would demand conscious thoughts." On what rational basis can Dariusz claim that straightening of the rear wrist is the most natural phenomenon that must happen according to the laws of human biomechanics and physics? On what basis does he believe that there is naturally a hinge joint at the level of the right wrist joint/FLW through impact? I can understand him claiming that the right wrist has a hinge motion pre-impact, but on what basis does he claim that it must continue to function as a hinge joint after impact? I obviously believe otherwise, and I believe that the FLW/intact LAFW must remain intact between P7 and P7.5. Dariusz also doesn't understand that the left wrist never functions as a hinge joint in the plane of wrist flexion/extension in the golf swing and that is only functions as a hinge joint in the plane of wrist cocking/uncocking - if the golfer maintains an intact LAFW throughout his swing action from P2 to P7.5. The same phenomenon naturally applies to tennis players executing a forehand stroke. They hinge the wrist joint backwards in the backstroke action, and they hinge back to neutral by ball impact, but they do not continue to allow the wrist joint to continue to hinge (palmar flex beyond neutral) after impact. Here is Rafael Nadal He dorsiflexes the left wrist in his backstroke, and he reverses this process in the forward stroke, but he doesn't palmar flex his wrist after impact. The same principle applies to a golf swing. There is no natural straightening of the right wrist through impact in David Toms' swing, and no dorsiflexion of his FLW. Jeff.
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Post by imperfectgolfer on Jun 14, 2012 18:00:46 GMT -5
I am banned from BM's forum.
Jeff.
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Post by imperfectgolfer on Jun 14, 2012 18:07:53 GMT -5
BM wrote the following in his thread today-: "EVERYONE ON THE TOUR HAS MASSIVE RIGHT WRIST ACCELERATION TO AND THROUGH IMPACT!!!!!!" What BS! Where is the right wrist acceleration through impact in David Toms' swing? Jeff.
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Post by tomdavis76 on Jun 14, 2012 23:16:51 GMT -5
David Toms has the second slowest clubhead speed on tour, at 104.4mph, so he isn't a very good swing model, IMO.
Bman is correct that there is a fair amount of release of lag into impact, even by the elite ballstrikers, just not as much post-impact as he advocates. You should show the frame or two BEFORE impact, not start with the frame at impact.
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Post by imperfectgolfer on Jun 15, 2012 0:00:27 GMT -5
nmg wrote-: "BM is saying their hands accelerate into and through impact. (as apposed to slowing down) which many people believe they do (must)."
I disagree that BM is simply stating that the hands must accelerate into impact - when he talks of right wrist straightening. He is implying that right wrist straightening is a 5th power accumulator that increases clubhead speed as an independent variable. I know of no evidence to support the idea that right wrist straightening can act as a power accumulator. If BM is asserting that the right wrist is acting as a 5th power accumulator by actively straightening into-and-through impact, then he would have to explain how a golfer can simultaneosuly ensure a FLW and stable clubface that faces the target between P6.9 and P7.1 - under those conditions.
Jeff.
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Post by imperfectgolfer on Jun 15, 2012 0:19:56 GMT -5
Jeffy wrote-: "Bman is correct that there is a fair amount of release of lag into impact, even by the elite ballstrikers, just not as much post-impact as he advocates."
Release of lag occurs pre-impact and it occurs within the plane of left wrist uncocking (ulnar deviation) and not in the plane of left wrist extension-flexion. Secondly, how does active right wrist straightening between P6 and P7 fruitfully increase the speed of release of PA#2 (that occurs in the plane of left wrist uncocking, and not the plane of left wrist extension/flexion)?
Also, how can lag continue to be released post-impact - if the process of releasing lag is completed when the clubhead catches up to the hands (and when the left arm and clubshaft are in a straight-line relationship) and that phenomenon normally happens at low point - where a golfer often places the ball when using a driver?
Jeff.
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Post by imperfectgolfer on Jun 15, 2012 7:21:20 GMT -5
Dextrous, I fully accept that it is possible to straighten the right wrist without bending the left wrist - as can be seen in Domimic Mazza's swing in the next photo sequence. His clubhead speed at impact is 140+mph, and his likely clubhead speed at P6.5 is probably 100+mph. If the right wrist actively straightens between P6.5 and P7+, then what "evidence" do you have that it is physically possible for the right forearm muscles to contract with enough isotonic force that it can increase clubhead speed beyond the amount that the clubhead has already acquired at that time point in the late downswing? Secondly, if a golfer has a slower clubhead speed than the clubhead speeds seen in long-drive competitors, then how can any active right wrist straightening be precisely modulated to increase clubhead speed without predisposing to flipping through impact? You referred to VJ Singh. Here is VJ Singh's right wrist straightening action in the late downswing. I think that his right wrist passively straightens because he runs-out-of-right arm, and not due to any active right wrist straightening action. VJ Singh has specifically stated that he uses that technique to prevent using any active right arm action - in order to prevent flipping. Jeff.
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Post by imperfectgolfer on Jun 15, 2012 20:40:27 GMT -5
How would ENSO answer any question relating to this issue of "right wrist straightening"?
I have never indicated that right wrist straightening through impact is disadvantageous if it doesn't cause flipping and bending of the FLW. Passive right wrist straightening is frequently present in golfers who use a full roll hand release action. I have only stated that I cannot understand how active right wrist straightening can be perceived to be a power accumulator (PA#5) that can usefully increase clubhead speed without increasing the risk of flipping through impact.
Jeff.
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Post by imperfectgolfer on Jun 15, 2012 21:19:08 GMT -5
BM wrote today in his forum's thread.
"EVERYONE decent has MASSIVE twist/gamma in their swings. It is a ramp up from the top through impact. Certainly there are differences in amount, but it is there as sure as the nose on my face. TGM omits it. Quite a few other "Scientific" systems do as well.
b. EVERYONE decent has MASSIVE right wrist straightening in their swings in the final phase of the downswing. Certainly there are differences in amount, but it is there as sure as the nose on my face. TGM omits it. Quite a few other "Scientific" systems do as well."
Where exactly in the downswing does a golfer have MASSIVE twist (gamma) in their downswing action? Why should it happen if the golfer doesn't perform a twistaway action (finger torquing action)?
When did TGM ever assert that the right wrist should not passively straighten between P6 and P7 in a swinger? Based on my understanding of TGM mechanics, the idea of maintaining a "frozen" right wrist bend only applies to TGM hitters. Secondly, the variable amount of right wrist straightening seen in many professional golfers (who are swingers) between P6 and P7 doesn't imply that the right wrist straightening is active or that it increases clubhead speed (by acting as a power accumulator).
Jeff.
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Post by imperfectgolfer on Jun 16, 2012 8:53:41 GMT -5
BM wrote-: "EVERYONE decent has MASSIVE right wrist straightening in their swings in the final phase of the downswing." I don't know how BM defines the term "massive" but I think that David Toms only has a small degree of straightening of his right wrist in the final phase of his downswing - and I don't think that BM would label David Toms as not being a "decent" golfer. Jeff. p.s As a separate side-issue-: The capture images above nicely demonstrate how David Toms releases PA#3 and squares the clubface in the final phase of his downswing - and the release of PA#3 is biomechanically due to a left forearm supinatory motion and right elbow straightening action.
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Post by gmbtempe on Jun 16, 2012 14:10:02 GMT -5
Do you think most people are releasing #3 correctly in order to square the face? Is the something that happens naturally or is a learned mechanic?
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Post by imperfectgolfer on Jun 16, 2012 16:10:28 GMT -5
Greg,
I think that PA#3 release can happen automatically if one is relaxed and if one doesn't use hand manipulations or any right arm hitting action through the impact zone (between P6 and P8). However, one can also consciously learn how to improve its "inner workings" by understanding the biomechanical basis for the PA#3 release action. A key point is understanding that i) the degree of PA#3 release used is inversely proportional to the strength of the left hand grip - weak grips generally require much more PA#3 release action than a very strong left hand grip; and ii) understanding that the amount of clubhead travel per unit degree of left forearm supinatory roll is much greater when adopting a finger grip compared to a mid-palmar grip. One also needs to understand the critical role of "optimum right forearm paddlewheeling" in generating a more smooth execution of a PA#3 release action.
Jeff.
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Post by imperfectgolfer on Jun 16, 2012 22:06:30 GMT -5
BM originally wrote in his forum's thread-: "EVERYONE decent has MASSIVE twist/gamma in their swings. It is a ramp up from the top through impact. Certainly there are differences in amount, but it is there as sure as the nose on my face. TGM omits it." Brainid then asked a relevant question by asking-: "why do good ball strikers twist?" See - www.brianmanzella.com/golfing-discussions/17179-hinge-action-rate-closure-what-you-should-do-clubface-p9-pic-22.htmlBM then replied-: "They twist because they have to". How does BM constantly get away with non-answers that are devoid of explanatory detail? It is a stunning reflection of the lack of deep intellectual discussion re: golf swing mechanics/biomechanics that occurs in BM's forum. BM acts like a "guru" and makes meaningless statements and there is no counterargument from the many forum members who post in his forum. I would like to see any NGI forum member post an explanation of why a good golfer "twists because he has to". Jeff.
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Post by imperfectgolfer on Jun 17, 2012 22:25:12 GMT -5
Dextrous,
You are clueless about my intentions - and I don't in the least care care if BM is interested in my opinions re: golf swing mechanics/biomechanics. I have a different target audience. I believe that BM is wrong about "active right wrist straightening" and "twisting" and I have provided my reasons for my belief, and I don't care a whit if any specific person agrees with my position (or not). I do not post in this golf forum to convince any specific person of the absolute validity of my beliefs re:golf swing mechanics/biomechanics, and I only provide interested forum members (and guests) with alternative ways of thinking about golf swing mechanics/biomechanics.
I have already stated that I believe that Dariusz' reasoning re: the the biomechanics of right wrist straightening is invalid, and I have also provided reasons for my belief.
Jeff.
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