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Post by imperfectgolfer on Jan 1, 2013 11:08:28 GMT -5
I am always amazed how often Dariusz expresses irrational/illogical/incohrent opinions regarding golf swing biomechanics. See this thread that he started on the BM forum www.brianmanzella.com/golfing-discussions/17950-release.htmlDariusz asked-: " What type of release will be ALWAYS square to the path in 3-D ?" Not getting an answer he then commented-: " Wrists are made to bring power and velocity. Whoever thinks otherwise is a kinetically uneducated person on a poor TGM level --- I have been for quite some time studying Cotton's stuff and there is one pic that draw my attention:
Image - TinyPic - Free Image Hosting, Photo Sharing & Video Hosting
Cotton's commentary is as follows: "The right hand is moving faster than the left which is braking to allow the clubhead to catch up. This can be seen clearly by the extra blurriness of the right hand".
In the dark TGM times, I always wondered why there is no attention paid to the rear wrist action.He believes that rear wrist plays a role in squaring the clubface, but he has no clue how it should happen. He even echoes Cotton's irrational idea that it must involve braking of the left hand. Phew! He is clueless about basic TGM mechanics. Jeff.
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Post by cwdlaw223 on Jan 1, 2013 14:42:05 GMT -5
Jeff -
Do you believe that everyone has the same rate of closure (no idea how to define the word that gets thrown around in Kelvin's circles like a magic wand) or is there an ideal rate of closure? If there is an ideal, what is it in numerically speaking?
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Post by imperfectgolfer on Jan 1, 2013 15:08:46 GMT -5
When you refer to the "rate of closure" are you talking about the immediate impact zone (between P6.9-P7.1)? If you are - then the I think that there is an ideal rate of clubface closure for a straight shot, and that ideal clubface closure rate is zero. I believe that the clubface should continuously face the target and not close (or open) during the impact interval.
Jeff.
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Post by cwdlaw223 on Jan 1, 2013 22:51:28 GMT -5
Jeff -
So after impact the rate is still zero? If not, how can it go from a rate of zero during impact to more than zero post impact?
I've never heard anyone assert the closure rate was zero. Face angle and path as zero, but never a closure rate.
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Post by imperfectgolfer on Jan 2, 2013 1:13:08 GMT -5
cwdlaw223,
What do you define as the closure rate (ROC)?
I am referring to the back of the FLW. If the back of the FLW is kept facing the target throughout the immediate impact zone, then theoretically the ROC of the FLW is zero (although the ROC of the clubface is different due to toe/lead deflection of the peripheral shaft). Note that I stated theoretically - because it is impossible to get the back of the FLW to travel in a straight line, because the FLW is merely the end of the straight left arm, which is undergoing a pendular arced motion, and it must therefore have a finite magnitude of ROC through the impact interval. I don't know what the measured ROC of the FLW truly is in a full golf swing, and it is not important because a golfer must try and keep his FLW moving towards the target between P6.9 and P7.1 as much as is biomechanically possible - in order to minimize the ROC of the FLW, and therefore the ROC of the clubface.
Jeff.
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Post by cwdlaw223 on Jan 2, 2013 13:17:15 GMT -5
I believe the ROC is the rate (speed and time) the clubface closes in the downswing. (Closes to what? The shaft? Path? I don't know.) I also don't know whether it's in degrees per second or some other measurement nor do I know over what period of time or distance someone measures this rate. I think ROC is justing timing. Maybe a standard will emerge in the future, maybe not.
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Post by imperfectgolfer on Jan 2, 2013 14:08:58 GMT -5
Here is a good example of a golfer tracing a SPL so that he can hit the ball straight.
There is no tumbling motions or wrist flipping motions in his downswing/followthrough swing action. He also certainly knows how to maintain an intact LAFW/FLW throughout his entire swing action.
Jeff.
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Post by imperfectgolfer on Jan 4, 2013 23:34:26 GMT -5
Ja,
You are presumably Tapio, who is exhibiting his frustration. Even if you are not, the tone of your post is incompatible with this forum's new rules regarding flagrant ad hominem insults. I asked Rand (Administrator) to open the forum up again for new members and to allow guests to post - based on Jeffy's request. It looks like we will have to close the forum again to new members and also prevent guests from freely posting in this forum. I don't mind the most extreme criticism of my opinions re: golf swing mechanics/biomechanics/testing, but I will not let this forum become an uncivilized cesspool where forum members indulge in uncivilized ad hominem insults - as happened in the Gotham Golf Blog forum (which Ralph Perez didn't censor). In the meantime, I will simply ensure that these uncivilized posts are eventually removed - it will take some time because Rand doesn't visit this forum frequently.
Jeff.
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Post by bullet on Jan 5, 2013 7:24:57 GMT -5
I would like to see Dariusz go through the archaic book , presume this is the TGM book , and point out what the book is about and include his " correct interpretations" vs Jeff's " correct interpretations" of each paragraph and then explain why / who got it all wrong
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Post by bullet on Jan 5, 2013 9:27:16 GMT -5
Fair enough ! But imop you could take it as a compliment that Jeff has you on his radar ! Btw Tgm is not about handle dragging or excess forward shaft lean or arms of the chest stuff that people like Manzella and Hughes make up in their vivid imagination . Honestly I doubt whether they went to college let alone get Kelley's concepts . I 'M not John , I don't post much on forums but I like reading and you do seem to like to throw Tgm under the bus but its blatantly clear you use other people's distorted view of Tgm to piggyback off so you can stroke your own ego. Just sayin
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Post by bullet on Jan 5, 2013 9:29:19 GMT -5
And yes I don't think Jeff should be calling you an idiot either , I bet he wouldn't to your face
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Post by imperfectgolfer on Jan 5, 2013 10:22:15 GMT -5
Dariusz,
If you decide to join this forum, then you have to abide by my rules that Rand (administrator) has endorsed. Rand does not actively monitor this forum, and he lets me set the standards for discourse. You cannot call any forum member an idiot or insult him in any overt manner. However, you can freely insult non-members. For example, I called you an idiot when you were a non-member, but I would not be allowed to attack you with ad hominem insults if you remain an active member - even if I still harbor the same opinion about you. Even one transgression (regarding the rules about ad hominem attacks) is a reason for being banned. Rand has responded to every request to ban a forum member that I have ever made, and he is 100% supportive of my position.
Although there is no allowance made for ad hominem attacks, we allow open criticism of any forum member's opinions re: golf swing mechanics/biomechanics. For example, I believe that Cotton's slap hinge release action is totally wrong-headed and I don't hesitate to state that opinion freely. You are free to reject my opinion, and post a contrary opinion, but you will be immediately banned if you post even one more ad hominem insult. I think that all your opinions re: the release are wrong-headed and you can either defend them or ignore my posts.
When Rand responds to my private e-mail (which usually takes days), I expect him to remove all your offending posts (including Natep's). Natep voluntarily withdrew from this forum before being banned, but he will not be allowed to rejoin this forum because he is simply indulging in ad hominem insults (as per usual). Also, I hope that Rand will re-institute controls that will prevent guests from posting.
Jeff.
p.s. Dariusz - I will definitely not apologize for any insults made in my original post - because you were a non-forum member and I didn't break any of this forum's rules. If you will only post in this forum if I first apologize to you, then you should immediately cancel your membership because no apology will be forthcoming.
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Post by cwdlaw223 on Jan 5, 2013 10:28:46 GMT -5
This post sounds like Tapio, but if it's you D I appreciate your thoughts and humility. (I like the Polish people. Great people caught between the Germans and Russians).
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Post by bullet on Jan 5, 2013 10:34:49 GMT -5
Interesting, I am almost surte you are whom I suspect. Really , shades of Tapio thinking all morad guys are svsv Vincenzo , how about I add a lmao as well Doesn't matter now, I am at the learning mode startying from 1st January. Wow that's great , perhaps you should learn about the Tgm divide that existed between Ben Doyle and Homer Kelley My ego has been seriously diminished exactly because of this fact. One cannot learn correctly with a big ego. However, I will never cease to have Polish heart and ALWAYS WILL FIGHT BACK SERIOUSLY when someone abuse me, my family or my country. Even if it means sables against tanks. Polish girls are hot! As regards Manzella and Hughes. The first is the top 100 teacher who was in the TGM camp for many years and knew its good and bad things. If he decided to abandon it in the name of science, I am convinced. People who admitted they were wrong usually are right. Hughes is a tour player with successes. He arguably plays better than all other characters in the net active on golf fora. He knows what he says, I believe. Manzella was a Doyle prodigy who got taught max participation swing but not how Kelley envisioned it. His concept of handle dragging is nothing to do with Tgm So Hughes played on tour therefore he understands Tgm ? He gathered a few ideas from John erikson , another Doyle prodigy , does that make him right as well? And who are you to throw under the bus what these two say ? And don't say me anything about wishing to remain anonymous. People can be divided into two camps: cowards and not cowards. I won't go further because I have neither time nor willingness to. It's a broken record isn't it? You think your entitled to know everyone's name on the Internet! Wake up Dariusz , the world is full of kooks shooting people ! Lastly, I have my own thoughts about TGM that I gladly present here and will admit I am wrong if I am convinced to. But first, I need to hear apologies and forum owner's declaration about the future of this place. Cheers Lets all hope you get that apology , so we can all hear your Tgm concepts
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Post by bullet on Jan 5, 2013 10:42:55 GMT -5
Just an extra bit for you Dariusz . Years ago on another forum the great top 100 teacher Manzella was trying to impress the mob with his Tgm knowledge but a little green man turned up and smoked him over and over again , too f..king funny , and you wanna hang your ass out in the breeze saluting Manzella and his handle dragging agenda . Boo was the pin up boy for dragging his handle until richie 3 pointed out he was a super ball striker , then boo was suddenly not a drag queen
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