|
Post by aimsmithgolf on Mar 29, 2011 13:43:42 GMT -5
|
|
|
Post by gmbtempe on Mar 29, 2011 13:57:19 GMT -5
I think the real magic happens between 6 and 7 with his lower body. The face stuff with the secret was just his compensation for other issues which is fine.
See how much the club has traveled yet it hardly looks like he has moved other then the left hip starting to rotate up, left shoulder opening up, yet believe me lots has gone on with his lower legs, knees, femur and pelvis. Again not sure this can be taught though I do so this move from just about all of Mac's good students on the net. (David Orr, Lake, David McDaniel, Mac), could be natural talent.
|
|
|
Post by aimsmithgolf on Mar 29, 2011 14:01:34 GMT -5
I think the real magic happens between 6 and 7 with his lower body. The face stuff with the secret was just his compensation for other issues which is fine. See how much the club has traveled yet it hardly looks like he has moved other then the left hip starting to rotate up, left shoulder opening up, yet believe me lots has gone on with his lower legs, knees, femur and pelvis. Again not sure this can be taught though I do so this move from just about all of Mac's good students on the net. (David Orr, Lake, David McDaniel, Mac), could be natural talent. You are so right Greg. The initial club movement appears WAY out in front of the rest of his body as well. Look how the gap between the legs stays consistent in frames 1, 2 and 3. Rand
|
|
|
Post by aimsmithgolf on Mar 29, 2011 14:10:49 GMT -5
One thing that everyone should note in viewing this sequence is that Hogan swung the club very fast. I believe something like .95 seconds from start to impact. Keep that in mind when analyzing these still photos.
Rand
|
|
|
Post by gmbtempe on Mar 29, 2011 14:16:10 GMT -5
This separation, which seems to occur with the left hip opening, relatively flat shoulder motion to this point, left knee rotation, but the pelvis looks very static in terms of lateral motion.........look at the Lag from these two and from Hogan, to me this is not an accident, to me its related. Attachments:
|
|
|
Post by natep on Mar 29, 2011 14:51:20 GMT -5
It's pretty funny, lately I have been getting a Hoganish lag on the downswing that was never there before. And I'm getting it by trying to dump the #2 acc. as hard as I can at the start of the downswing. It seems completely opposite, but what happens is when you try to release #2 hard from the top, the momentum and weight of the club wont allow your wrists to release, and instead the right arm starts straightening sooner and you get into the position Hogan is in in the photos, where the club looks like its moved a lot while the body really hasnt relatively speaking. I'll try and get some video up today of the before and after of my swing. The difference is amazing and unbelievable, since I found this by accident really while trying out some Tom Tomasello stuff.
|
|
|
Post by aimsmithgolf on Mar 29, 2011 15:00:08 GMT -5
It's pretty funny, lately I have been getting a Hoganish lag on the downswing that was never there before. And I'm getting it by trying to dump the #2 acc. as hard as I can at the start of the downswing. It seems completely opposite, but what happens is when you try to release #2 hard from the top, the momentum and weight of the club wont allow your wrists to release, and instead the right arm starts straightening sooner and you get into the position Hogan is in in the photos, where the club looks like its moved a lot while the body really hasnt relatively speaking. I'll try and get some video up today of the before and after of my swing. The difference is amazing and unbelievable, since I found this by accident really while trying out some Tom Tomasello stuff. That's very interesting... when during the swing do you think "DUMP acc #2"... at the very start of the downswing, right? What do you feel at that point in the swing? Rand
|
|
|
Post by natep on Mar 29, 2011 15:07:34 GMT -5
I try as hard as I can to dump #2 from the start of the downswing. But the result is that it actually creates the most lag possible, because you physically cant release it no matter how hard you try. By pushing hard on the club with my left thumb and right hand, it actually straightens the right arm a lot before the #2 actually releases down at the bottom.
Some of you guys have seen my swing before, and it's definitely not something you would call Hogan-like. It's more like a Nicklaus type swing. But it blew my mind when I saw this on video. I'm lagging it like the best of them now, ironically by trying to release the lag as soon as I can. I'll get the videos up on youtube later and post it up you'll see what I'm talking about.
Edit: Here's a before, I'll try and get the slow-mo after asap.
|
|
|
Post by natep on Mar 29, 2011 15:49:14 GMT -5
Here's a driver swing from a few days ago. I dont have a high speed camera and I didnt have time to edit this into slow motion, but if you have a v1 player you can watch it frame by frame. Its kinda hard to see on this video beacuse I was swinging so hard. I'll make a video later today with an iron and better lighting and hopefully it will be more apparent. I just find it pretty amazing that I have so much more lag by trying to throw the club from the top instead of trying to delay the release. I got this concept from the Austinology videos, and then I saw that 3 part Tom Tomasello video at LBG where he says basically the exact same things as Austin, so much so that I'm convinced he's copying him almost word for word and was familiar with Austin's technique. Those two are the only folks I've ever heard who say to throw it from the top, etc. You can see here that Austin also had plenty of lag: The biggest difference imo is due to the right arm straightening sooner when trying to throw #2 from the top. It makes a big difference. Also, I'm left handed but swing right handed, so my right arm is pretty weak and uncoordinated. So maybe this has a greater impact for me than it would for you righthanders who may be using a lot of right arm already. Looking at the Hogan pics it looks like his left arm comes off of his chest very early in the downswing, which probably also contributes to the look of his body moving slow relative to the club.
|
|
|
Post by imperfectgolfer on Mar 29, 2011 20:18:28 GMT -5
Natep, You wrote-: "By pushing hard on the club with my left thumb and right hand, it actually straightens the right arm a lot before the #2 actually releases down at the bottom." "Feel and "real" are not the same thing. I examined your video with my V1Home swing analyser program. You start to release PA#2 as soon as your right elbow straightens. You do not straighten your right elbow before you release PA#2, even though you may "feel" that it is happening. You have a random release action, and you start to release PA#2 when your hands reach waist level. I think that it is virtually impossible to maintain maximum lag while straightening the right elbow. I think that Mike Austin's right arm throw action does not produce premature straightening of the right arm. MA maintained a ~90 degree right elbow bend throughout his early-mid downswing. His right elbow only starts to straighten towards the end of his mid-downswing and it results in a random release. Note that MA has maintained his right elbow bend in image 6, and it only straightens in image 7 - as he releases PA#2. Jeff.
|
|
|
Post by natep on Mar 29, 2011 20:28:46 GMT -5
Yes, the feel is certainly different than the real, my main point was that trying to throw #2 from the top resulted in more lag than not trying to throw it from the top. I'm not exactly sure why.
Also, my right arm might be straightening sooner than it would otherwise, regardless of when #2 starts releasing. Or perhaps I'm slotting the right elbow better. I'm not really sure.
|
|
|
Post by imperfectgolfer on Mar 29, 2011 20:38:05 GMT -5
Rand, When I look at those Hogan photos from Life magazine, it looks like he has an intact LAFW. Note that the clubface is in-line with the back of his left forearm. That means that the cupping is due to a GFLW and not due to left wrist bending. A clue to that situation is noting that his right wrist is significantly bent back when he is at the end-backswing position. However, when he was demonstrating his "secret" (your first photos from your original thread) the situation was very different. In image 2, he has a bent left wrist (not a GFLW) - note how his right wrist is not bent back as much. That means that he is pushing his left wrist into a state of dorsiflexion by decreasing the amount of right wrist bend. That didn't happen in his actual swing. Jeff.
|
|
|
Post by aimsmithgolf on Mar 29, 2011 20:43:33 GMT -5
Jeff,
I'm not quite sure what you mean by "in his actual swing." ... you don't mean he did not do what he demonstrated do you?
Rand
|
|
|
Post by imperfectgolfer on Mar 29, 2011 20:43:52 GMT -5
Natep, I think that it is a good idea to throw from the top - as MA recommends. However, one needs to throw the upper arm, which causes the right elbow to lead the hands. Here is MA demonstrating his right arm throw action. Note how the right elbow is leading the hands in image 3 - that is because one throws the right upper arm. That action drives the right elbow to its pitch location near the right hip before the right elbow starts straightening. Jeff.
|
|
|
Post by majorminor on Mar 29, 2011 20:45:38 GMT -5
Natep, You wrote-: "By pushing hard on the club with my left thumb and right hand, it actually straightens the right arm a lot before the #2 actually releases down at the bottom." "Feel and "real" are not the same thing. I examined your video with my V1Home swing analyser program. You start to release PA#2 as soon as your right elbow straightens. You do not straighten your right elbow before you release PA#2, even though you may "feel" that it is happening. You have a random release action, and you start to release PA#2 when your hands reach waist level. I think that it is virtually impossible to maintain maximum lag while straightening the right elbow. I think that Mike Austin's right arm throw action does not produce premature straightening of the right arm. MA maintained a ~90 degree right elbow bend throughout his early-mid downswing. His right elbow only starts to straighten towards the end of his mid-downswing and it results in a random release. Note that MA has maintained his right elbow bend in image 6, and it only straightens in image 7 - as he releases PA#2. Jeff. Yeah but, Nate needs that feel to get that real. He gets more lag because of his intention to throw the club from the top. Even T.T. said it won't look like your releasing early. Take a look at any Major League pitcher and you will see their pitching arm in a unbelievable bent back contorted looking position when throwing a fastball at full speed and what are they trying to do? They are not trying to hold that angle/lag of their pitching arm, instead they are trying to get the ball to the plate as fast as possible in other words get rid of the ball. The intention and how you do it produces this lag position. Oh and @ Nate , Peter Croker's system is based on this, check him out as he was taught by Tomasello.
|
|