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Post by chipitin on Dec 6, 2013 20:29:30 GMT -5
05-02-2009 03:16 PM #1 Brian Manzella Brian Manzella is offline
Join Date Jul 2003 Location USA. Posts 14,216 Blog Entries 14
Default How to perform the Manzella "Twistaway" correctly
"Alex Limco" is a forum member who is trying to improve his game. He is having problems with the "Twistaway" and says doing it hurts his wrist. HE also says—at first—he didn't realize that when he Twisted, he needed a flat left wrist.
I hope the following clears the "Twistaway" up for everyone.
In my video Never Slice Again, I introduce my concept of the "Twistaway."
Quite simply, it is the rotation of the golf club—about the shaft—in the direction of closing the face from wherever it is.
If you do it, you will ALWAYS HAVE A FLAT or even slightly ARCHED left wrist.
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Post by imperfectgolfer on Dec 6, 2013 20:30:48 GMT -5
I believe that the term "twistaway" refers to the gamma rotation (axial rotation) of the clubshaft about its longitudinal axis that is happening when the golf club is near-stationary. AL's and DJ's clubshaft is not changing its angulation much at the P4 position (other than drooping slightly due to the left wrist palmar flexion). However, the clubface is becoming very closed relative to the back of their left lower forearm at P4, and that is due to the twistaway maneuver.
Jeff.
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Post by imperfectgolfer on Dec 6, 2013 20:39:05 GMT -5
Chipitin quoted BM as follows when it comes to defining a twistaway action-: "Quite simply, it is the rotation of the golf club—about the shaft—in the direction of closing the face from wherever it is.
If you do it, you will ALWAYS HAVE A FLAT or even slightly ARCHED left wrist.
I agree with that description. However, the left wrist palmar flexion (AFLW or arched left wrist) is a secondary effect, which happens when a golfer uses the flexor digitorum muscles to the left 3rd, 4th and 5th fingers to "rotate the clubshaft about its longitudinal axis". When the flexor digitorum muscles start to contract, they first curl the fingers and if the muscles contract more then the left wrist subsequently/secondarily becomes palmar flexed.
However, that described activation of the flexor digitorum muscles to the left 3rd, 4th and 5th fingers doesn't happen between P6 and P7 when the clubshaft rotates around its longitudinal axis due to the release of PA#3.
Jeff.
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Post by chipitin on Dec 6, 2013 20:44:26 GMT -5
How do you know when that action starts? Can you do TWISTAWAY at different points in the swing? If not why not?
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Post by imperfectgolfer on Dec 6, 2013 20:53:31 GMT -5
Twistaway can occur in the downswing when the left wrist is radially-deviated, which means that it can occur between P4 and P6 - and not between P6 and P7 when the left wrist becomes increasingly ulnar-deviated. One can roughly determine to what degree the flexor digitorum muscles to the left 3rd, 4th and 5th fingers are active between P4 and P6 by noting how much the clubface becomes closed relative to the back of the left forearm during that time period.
Another "fact" that allows twistaway to occur at P4, or between P4 and P6, is that angulation of the clubshaft is constrained by the loaded RFFW during that time period. However, when the right arm straightens between P6 and P7 it allows the clubshaft to angulate freely in response to any left wrist palmar flexion phenomenon, and there is no RFFW-constraining-effect with respect to the clubshaft.
Jeff.
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Post by chipitin on Dec 6, 2013 21:03:24 GMT -5
That says when you can start it. It's in motion then.
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Post by imperfectgolfer on Dec 6, 2013 21:06:34 GMT -5
Not free motion - but constrained motion due to the resistance imposed by a loaded RFFW! When the power package is intact (and the RFFW is fully loaded) between P4 and P6 then it constrains the free motion of the left wrist/clubshaft.
Jeff.
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Post by chipitin on Dec 6, 2013 21:09:26 GMT -5
Everyone who can play a lick, does the Twistaway at some point prior to impact. In Never Slice Again, we are trying to fix golfers who slice and have NEVER learned this essential move, and thus try—unsuccessfully—all sorts of other things to square up the golf club.
In Never Slice Again, we are proposing that a Slicer needs to apply this twist pretty early in the backswing, and then keep it applied—best that they can—all the way to the finish.
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Post by chipitin on Dec 6, 2013 21:15:40 GMT -5
Not free motion - but constrained motion due to the resistance imposed by a loaded RFFW! When the power package is intact (and the RFFW is fully loaded) between P4 and P6 then it constrains the free motion of the left wrist/clubshaft. Jeff. But it is already formed, there is no need to do more of it/twistaway, that's the point it now is Gamma, so it is still closing like you said about A.L. That's why you need to use Axis tilt/side bend that is shown in that video. Not everyone needs Twistaway. But there is a constant closing of the clubface. The clubface is constantly closing down relatively to the shaft itself. There is no "arc" it's an elipse. The clubface doesn't close, open and then close again. It's closing in space and we are trying to time that "closing event" in relation to the ball on the ground.
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Post by chipitin on Dec 6, 2013 21:18:03 GMT -5
I'm done on this as it is going around to things already discussed. Have a nice evening!
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Post by imperfectgolfer on Dec 6, 2013 21:20:04 GMT -5
Chipitin,
You wrote-: "Everyone who can play a lick, does the Twistaway at some point prior to impact.
In Never Slice Again, we are trying to fix golfers who slice and have NEVER learned this essential move, and thus try—unsuccessfully—all sorts of other things to square up the golf club.
In Never Slice Again, we are proposing that a Slicer needs to apply this twist pretty early in the backswing, and then keep it applied—best that they can—all the way to the finish."
You use the term "we" and I presume that you are now writing as BM (or as a BM-clone, or as a Manzella disciple). I believe that it is a delusion to believe that using the twistaway action during the backswing action, which will cause the clubface to become more closed (relative to the left forearm) at P4, will still have any residual clubface-closing effect between P6 and P7 when the club releases (due to the release of PA#2) and when the left wrist become ulnar-deviated. If you believe that I am wrong, show me two swings (using BM's 'slice-fixing' twistaway maneuver and when not using that maneuver) - so that we can examine how closed the clubface is (relative to the back of the left forearm) at P6.7 and at P7. I predict that there will be no difference in clubface-closure at those two time points.
Also, consider this statement that you made (in true BM-fashion)-: "Everyone who can play a lick, does the Twistaway at some point prior to impact."
Where is the "evidence" that Henrik Stenson is using a "twistaway" phenomenon during either his backswing or downswing action?
Jeff.
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Post by chipitin on Dec 6, 2013 21:41:25 GMT -5
Ask Manzella it's his quote, not mine. Who said anything about Stenson using twistaway? Quit making up stuff I never said.
I predict there will be a dissipated closed face angle for the reason I already said, you're just not listening. Axis tilt/side bend that is explained in that video, it changes things... but people can over ride almost anything in a golf swing.
Ever see anyone who has almost no side bend and swings more horizontally.
I predict they will have a closed face angle at those positions if they use twistaway.
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Post by imperfectgolfer on Dec 6, 2013 21:48:40 GMT -5
Chipitin,
You never used quote marks in reply #22! I therefore presumed that you were actually making that assertion (as a BM clone). Anyway, BM was wrong to imply that all golfers (worth a lick) use a twistaway maneuver at some point during their backswing or downswing action, and he was wrong to assume that the "clubface-closing effect" of a slice-fixing twistaway maneuver (used during the backswing) would persist throughout the late downswing to impact.
Jeff.
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Post by chipitin on Dec 6, 2013 21:51:07 GMT -5
I thought you would know from the words " In never Slice Again" since that's a Manzella video.
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Post by imperfectgolfer on Dec 6, 2013 21:54:10 GMT -5
Chipitin,
You wrote-: "I predict there will be a dissipated closed face angle for the reason I already said, you're just not listening. Axis tilt/side bend that is explained in that video, it changes things..
I think that you are totally wrong! I don't believe that axis tilt/side bend has any causal effect on a twistaway action due to activation of the flexor digitorum muscles to the left 3rd, 4th and 5th fingers.
Jeff.
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